Abused Victim Shares His Story, learn the signs of abuse!

smilingmom

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 1:44 pm

Hinda Rochel, I did not mean to hijack this very important thread se*xual abuse.

I was merely responding to a post by BestMomBrooklyn, where she mislead the readership by stating the following"

Quote:

Currently, in Brooklyn, if you report abuse, you lose your children to their abuser. That is, if it's their father.

FIRST HAND PROOF!

I am actually hosting a support group, for women who lost their children to this horrific system. PM me privately.

When she meant "if a parent wrongfully accuses a spouse of abusing a child, (usually during the course of divorce litigation). And the court finds out that the accusations were fabricated by that parent, who is supposed to protect the child and instead is subjugating to the child to needless physical and mental exams, then that parent will lose custody".

BestMomBrooklyn gave the false impression that reporting abuse can cause the courts to gve the cildren to the proven abusers.
I think the last thng we should do is discourage reporting of abuse.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 1:46 pm

[quote="bashinda"]
And sorry to bring up a tangent, how young should we start to educate our kids? I have a 7 year and 4 year olds. Should I already be talking to them about this?[quote/]

Absolutely!

Say as follows: Your body is for you and you alone. If anyone tries to touch you in a way that you don't like, please tell me, okay? Don't be afraid to tell me.

For older girls, tell her: If a man tries to rape you and theatens to kill you, don't listen, just run. Because if they rape you they will try to kill you anyway. (Was told this by a daughter of a NYC police officer.)

The fact of the matter is: Children are scared of adults. Frequently abusers tell children, "don't tell anyone or I will kill xyz." You have to tell your child not to be scared, and not to listen if the perv perp threatens him.

All the education in the world won't help unless children are not afraid to come forward.

Last edited by amother on Fri, Jan 01 2016, 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total

smilingmom

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 1:52 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

Yes. I very well might be wrong but I think it would be better in the end. The child's name should be kept secret, and the case shouldn't be in the public eye besides the charges and the final verdict.

I also believe PAS and accusations of false charges should be in criminal court.

I did a very quick search. I can try and find your more info.

I take it you disagree with me? Why? Not combative, asking.

It is not that I disagree, I really have to think aboutit before I can make an informed opinion.
It is just that criminal courts are public courtrooms with the media taping and reporting. I would think that you would want to minimize the media exposure in such sensitive cases.

Ruchel

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 1:56 pm

Quote:

For older girls, tell her: If a man tries to rape you and theatens to kill you, don't listen, just run. Because if they rape you they will try to kill you anyway. (Was told this by a daughter of a NYC police officer.)

But he will catch her, no?
While if she doesn't see his face and doesn't fight, maybe he'll have pity?
This topic is sooooo stressing. As a single girl I lived in fear of that (also of marrying a Cohen and that happening). Lo alenu.

amother

Khaki

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 1:58 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

Men who have knives and are in the mood for a good rape don't have pity.

Last edited by amother on Fri, Jan 01 2016, 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total

ora_43

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 2:06 pm

Merrymom wrote:

Certainly the victims identities should be kept secret to the extent that they want to do so, at the same time when somebody is wanted for a crime and it's public knowledge or public record of what the crime is, that makes it pretty hard to keep secret particularly with incest. Again, we cannot afford to keep quiet for one victim's sake if it means that we put at risk there being many more victims. You must know the pasuk "Don't stand by idly over your brother's blood". Silence in of itself is aiding a evil person. These people don't just commit one crime, they do it over and over again. In that link provided it was stated that on average these men have over 100 victims! Think about that? Do you really think your fear of LH" takes precedence? At the very least you should be asking a Rav about this if you're unclear about it.

Give me a single example of a case in which it would be necessary to give enough information that people can identify the victim in order to apprehend (/avoid) the attacker.

For example, in a case of incest, why would anyone need to know that the person was convicted/suspected of incest davka? You could say "convicted of s-x crimes."

Again, this is the law, not just "fear of lashon hara." The people who made these laws are not morons who don't realize that pedophiles often have many victims. Again - they are trying to increase the reporting of crimes, not decrease. They believe that the chances someone will complain to police are higher if they know their involvement doesn't have to be public. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, maybe you should trust the experts, instead of wildly accusing everyone else of not caring enough about the victims?

ora_43

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 2:11 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

Most rapes don't end in murder or attempted murder.

But I still think it's good advice to fight back, since many rapes are prevented by the victim successfully fighting off the attacker/ screaming for help/running away.

I really doubt that going for pity would work.

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 2:27 pm

I am the OP. I was really exhausted from all this... I was two days on imamother and not doing any housework. I had to hide my laptop friday. Wink

Now I have so many posts I need to answer to and I still need to learn to quote you all in one post.

When I will have a few more minutes I will post more.
For now, to answer many of your questions, listen to Oprah's shows first because it has many answers.

To the poster who asked from what age she should tell her children, NOW is the time. Last week, my son wanted to prove for my husband that he is 'dry' and told him to check. My husband told him that he doesn't want to touch him there. My son answered only a father and mother is allowed to! So I asked him what would you do if someone does, he answered I don't know. (he is very young) I told him, "say don't touch me and run away! Even he tells you that he is going to hurt you if you report to your mother, always tell your mother! I love you the most, and I care for you the most..." The bottom line is that your child needs to know that he may be threatened not to tell his parents. Even CH"V he is forced, he should know to tell you. Your child should know that it exists, but you don't need to talk about it every day to frighten him. Whenever its appropriate, you mention it. The younger you start, the easier it will be. I stress a lot to my children that they need to be tzniusdik when they get dressed. Like they should'nt run around after a bath, or even when I try something on in a store, I do it in the fitting room. Respect their body.

HR, your quote, "But it doesn't seem useful, to me, to say (for instance) "do you see that boy over there? Well his father is in prison for molesting him".

Ouch. Wink

Been there, done that. Its a sticky situation and I can't answer fully in a public forum.
Regarding that particular news, many news sources did not mention the father's name for this reason. I was surprised that the daily news did. Since that lowlife fled, he brought this situation on his children. I gotta run now. Will come back later.

Flower

amother

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 3:27 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I also heard fighting back or yelling is great.
Yelling fire, because it concerns everyone, while yelling rape some don't care Mad

I've heard also that telling you have AIDS/nasty disease can disgust or frighten some guys, and playing the pregnant card too (but probably not a lunatic).

Although, I can't expect that from a 4 yr. old. Also, like someone said nothing is 100% foolproof. The most important thing, BELIEVE YOUR CHILD. No child would fabricate a nice story with details. The mental wellbeing of your child depends on your reaction. Getting help for him immediately, can make a huge difference in his future.

Flower

Merrymom

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 8:15 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Merrymom wrote:

I never said that one needs to know the details and who the victims are. However it does have to be clear that he attacked someone and preferably what age and gender since men like this typically pick a certain profile. The twelve year old female neighbor needs to be just as worried about the man in question as his molested daughter. It's not like they just pick one person and stick with him/her, they'll take any opportunity to do what they want since the bottom line is they only care about their own perverse pleasure, not the pain they inflict.

Oh, and one more thing. You give way more credit to lawmakers than they deserve. Have you ever heard of the ACLU? Do a google search on how they subvert our laws and prevent us from going after pedophiles the way a normal society should.

HindaRochel

Sun, Dec 12 2010, 11:27 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

If someone pulls a gun on you and orders you into a vehicle or to go with them, run, because their intent is to kill you and it is easier for you to run in the first place. I think that is what the officer was warning against.

amother

Mon, Dec 13 2010, 12:30 am

HindaRochel wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

I 'think' one of the 3 eiveros we must allow ourselves to be killed is rape. I really liked the way a poster expressed how I feel in another thread and I will quote her.

detroitmom wrote:
Um, why is everyone soooo concerned about Lashon Hara when what we're discussing is literally a yaharog v'al yaavor. Incest is giluy arayos in case anyone forgot. Why are people so concerned about tznius this and tznius that to the extent where you aren't considered frum if you wear a red sweater but they are concerned about protecting someone who had s@x with his own daughter!! How tznius is molesting someone?

Take away the stigma and shame from the victims and put it where it squarely on the perpetrator's shoulders where it belongs.

Flower

Mon, Dec 13 2010, 12:34 am

amother wrote:

HindaRochel wrote:

ora_43 wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Quote:

I wish there was a like button cause I cant say it better than she did

ora_43

Mon, Dec 13 2010, 2:32 am

Merrymom wrote:

You never said that? What do you think this entire debate has been about?

If you look back at how this started, I've been saying from the beginning that in this case, the man's information should have been given and nothing more, and my problem was with the way people were gossiping about the case and saying "I saw the victim was his daughter," "I know his daughters and they seem like good people," "well I know him and he seems like a good person," "well I know someone at the yeshiva and they said that he... " etc.

Now you're saying all you want is for it to be clear that he's accused of attacking someone .... so what were you disagreeing with me for? or disagreeing with anyone for?

eta - I don't think the ACLU is involved in the laws I'm talking about in Israel and Europe. In fact, the laws were suggested by women's groups and victims' groups, and if they face any opposition it's from people who feel it makes it too easy to accuse someone of a crime, and not from victims.