Yayin nesekh: non-Jews AND non-observant Jews?

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Do you hold that kosher wine cannot be touched by non-Jews AND non-observant Jews?

No: non jews cannot touch it, but non-Shabbat observant Jews can.

40%

[ 16 ]

Yes: neither non jews nor hilonim can touch the bottle.

60%

[ 24 ]

Total Votes : 40

simhat_nisuyyin

Sun, Jan 09 2011, 1:24 pm

Do you hold that both non jews and non-Shabbat observant Jews cannot touch a bottle of non-mevushal wine?

LisaS

Sun, Jan 09 2011, 1:53 pm

I voted yes, and we are sefardic, in case it matters.

saw50st8

Sun, Jan 09 2011, 2:35 pm

Both. We are ashkenazi.

Ruchel

Sun, Jan 09 2011, 3:02 pm

Both for us, but there is an opinion that today not being shomer shabbat isn't removing oneself from the covenant and as such it's only non jews. Interesting poll.

Now, I wouldn't go as far as calling all non shomer shabbes Jews chilonim. Some are QUITE traditional. Maybe that's the reason of the second opinion!

I have read from rabbanim who allowed, for shalom bayis or stam (R' Elie Kahn). I've read also an interesting article about today it's not yayin nesech anymore but "stam yenam" because it's not about idolatry anymore (R' Reouven Ouziel).

Peanut2

Sun, Jan 09 2011, 3:13 pm

It's a question for a rabbi.

Generally speaking there is an issue with wine and non-observant Jews. However, it is possible that it doesn't have to apply to Jews who are not shomer shabbat but who consistently observe some parts of shabbat. Specifically, Jews who make kiddush every week. It's not necessarily black and white.

simhat_nisuyyin

Sun, Jan 09 2011, 10:00 pm

Thanks, Peanut2, but I actually wasn't looking for halakhic advice. I was interested in different peoples' approaches. I've always followed the opinion that it doesn't pose a problem with non-Shabbat observing Jews, but was recently chastised about this by a family member who claims that "anyone who takes kashrut seriously" includes non-Shabbat observant Jews in the prohibition. Obviously, a rabbi will give you that particular rabbi's opinion, whereas what I'm interested in is what "anyone who takes kashrut seriously" has to say. Smile

mummy-bh

Mon, Jan 10 2011, 1:07 am

we hold that its for a bottle of wine that has been opened. A person who is not yet shabbos observant shouldn't touch it, and a [gentile] shouldn't even LOOK at the wine.

Ruchel

Mon, Jan 10 2011, 6:43 am

My grandfather grew up in a chassidishe home where the wine was covered for the non Jewish maids not to see.

Mrs Bissli

Mon, Jan 10 2011, 4:13 pm

I answered Yes as well. We're also sephardi, believe we tend to be machmir on this. When we have guests for meals, once we open the bottle DH guards it right next to him or makes sure all contents are poured into glasses in the first place.

Besiyata Dishmaya

Mon, Jan 10 2011, 7:39 pm

Mrs Bissli wrote:

What does the bolded mean?

Laughing Bag!

Mon, Jan 10 2011, 8:09 pm

mummy-bh wrote:

we hold that its for a bottle of wine that has been opened. A person who is not yet shabbos observant shouldn't touch it, and a [gentile] shouldn't even LOOK at the wine.

same here! we actually didnt know what is really right but when we came across the question when we were having a not religious guest shabbos we asked our rebbi what we need to know he told as as far as looking at the wine its not a problem although with non jews it is (some hold you cant drink it at all , and some wouldnt use it for kiddush but stam drinking they would). but we shouldnt let him touch the bottle so dh poured him his cup every time this guest came.

Ema of 5

Thu, Aug 21 2014, 6:06 pm

Are you asking about ALL kosher wine, or only non-mevushal? I dot really pay close attention to wine consumption because I'm allergic too it, but I think in our house a non shomer shabbos person as well as a non Jew may not touh non mevushal wine. In order to avoid any problems or embarrassment, my husband keeps te bottle next to him and he pours when someone wants wine. (I think that's what an above poster meant when she said her husband guards that the glasses get filled.)

(Not sure if it's mevushal or non mevushal that I'm referring to which we hold can't be touchd)

Scrabble123

Thu, Aug 21 2014, 7:34 pm

I never looked into this, but I know someone who holds that a non shomer shabbos who was never religious May, but someone who went OTD may not touch the wine. He explained that it's because someone who wasn't raised frum and still considers himself Jewish does t believe in avoda Zara,.. It's complex and I didn't go into details with him

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