Why are we against gay marriage?

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 8:09 pm

As a Jewish person, I obviously believe that marriage is for a husband and wife, and that being gay is not what the Torah wanted. However, I get confused when I see people mixing into the business of others and opposing gay marriage laws in America.

America was built on giving people rights. Everyone is equal. Just because I believe something is wrong, does not mean that someone else who does believe in it should be restricted. Just like there is freedom of religion, which benefits us Jews so much, there should be freedom for each person to decide how to live their lives as well. It is not our place, or the governments place, to control that.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 8:16 pm

amother wrote:

That is EXACTLY what I always say. Separation of church and state is the whole basis of America. People came to this country to escape religious persecution. Jews were persecuted and thrown out of a lot of countries because of someone else's beliefs.

So gay people get married. How does that affect your life in any way?

(It's pathetic that I have to be amother because otherwise people will attack me and think less of me here.)

allrgymama

Wed, May 18 2011, 8:52 pm

I've always tried to live a philosophy of 'Feel free to d*amn well want to, so long as it does not hurt another person unnecessarily" (as voiced by a character in a book by Spider Robinson).

If a non-Jewish man in San Francisco, or around my corner, wants to marry a man, it doesn't hurt me or my family. To be honest, I would rather my child see two men (or women) walking down the street holding hands, than to listen to some of the neighbors I do have yelling and screaming at each other or committing violent crimes.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 9:03 pm

Actually I think it is a controversy that is pumped up in order to distract us from other issues. FOr the life of me, I can not understand why the world is so vehement against gay marriage when we are allowing gay couples to adopt babies. Why do we care about a piece of paper saying they are legally allowed to do what everyone knows they are doing anyway, and yet we do not care to entrust them with our next generation?

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 9:10 pm

I hope I dont get pounced on for this.....

as a religious jew, I believe that gay marriage is wrong. I also believe that everyone has a right to live their life the way they want, and the separation of church and state played a big role in the founding of this country. however, I also believe that its wrong for a jew to go out and vote for something that the torah says is wrong. there is a difference between "live and let live" and condoning a certain lifestyle.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 9:16 pm

amother wrote:

penguin

Wed, May 18 2011, 9:37 pm

Society has an interest in maintaining the importance of the family - that's (maybe) why it's called the marriage protection bill. And why childcard is subsidized... no, wait, maybe that's anti-family. Well, look at Sweden where anything goes & see if they bring up happy kids. I think not.

I am not a history expert, but I believe that societies that disappeared started out with immorality (Rome, Egypt etc) I am sure someone here knows more...

ETA - oh, yes, and also there are Sheva Mitzvos Bnai Noach, I think this comes under one of them. Do you remember why there was a Mabul - ki hishchis kol bosor darko al ha'aretz. The Torah tells you that immorality corrupts the world.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 10:00 pm

Sorry to veer off the original thread, but this has been on my mind. True the sheva mitzvos bnei noach do prohibit znus, at the same time I have a good friend that I've known since we were in preschool. We went to an out of town orthodox day school until the end of high school, she's had some family issues and though she is shomer shabbos and kashrus, but wears pants and short sleeves. About 2 years after high school I found out that she had "come out". I was shocked when I had heard. This is someone who had once told me that gay relationships were assur, as well as that she found certain movie stars "cute". Upon a little prodding she has told me that she hasnt been in any relationships, but that's how she feels and that she felt this way in high school but didnt say anything to anyone b/c scared hpw they would react. She has no interest in regular marriage. I still maintain my frienship with her, but I have a hard time dealing with this. She's not trying to do something against the Torah, its just how she feels. Can anyone help me deal with this?

Raizle

Wed, May 18 2011, 10:22 pm

you are all so right, we should allow people to live the way they are and we should allow gay marriages

but.......

let's not forget the siblings Jane and John Doe who have quite a close relationship for a brother and sister.

but live and let live.....

however the world is not yet ready for Paul and .....fluffy..
that will have to wait till we no longer bat an eyelid at all of the above and then we can start working on allowing people to do as they please in their own kennels

Ema of 5

Wed, May 18 2011, 10:37 pm

Raizle wrote:

I dont get it.....

LiLIsraeli

Wed, May 18 2011, 10:39 pm

amother wrote:

On the other hand, if I would vote that gay marriage should be legalized, I am not necessarily condoning that lifestyle. I am voting in the theoretical sense - campaigning for their right to live as they choose, and not necessarily saying that it's okay.

Am I making sense? I feel like I was a little unclear but I can't think of how to explain it better.

Yocheved84

Wed, May 18 2011, 10:46 pm

I didn't read the responses; I'm responding solely to your subject line.

We're not all against gay marriage. Some of us are in absolute, full support of it. Some of us march in support of it, sign petitions for it, and attend our friend's marriage/commitment ceremonies as maids of honors.

And some of us will knowingly get bashed on this site for stating her opinions. Oh well. Bash me. Everyone has a right to love and be loved. Gay people have a right to love, as much as bigots do.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 11:33 pm

LiLIsraeli wrote:

amother wrote:

but campaigning and voting IS showing your support- would you campaign and vote for a candidate in whom you didnt believe? I dont have a problem with saying to each his own and let everyone live the way they want, but I dont think its something that a frum jew should be condoning.

amother

Wed, May 18 2011, 11:38 pm

To state that seperation of church and state played a big role in the founding of this country is simply wrong from a historical perspective.
Check it up, most states had mandated religions.
What played a big role was "Freedom of Religion" meaning even if the states religion was one thing you were free to practice the religion of your choosing. This was not exactly possible in Engalnd with the Church of England
What I have just stated is Historical Fact.
As for Gay Marriage.
From a strictly legal perspective the Government should not have the power to write its own dictionary. If I feel that a chair should be a table it does not help.
A chair is a chair.
A table is a table.
So to what two men do in the privacy of their own home is up to them.
However the definition of Marriage is "Union between Man and Wife".
I am not being "bigoted" against someone when I say that if you want you can marry just as me. If you are Gay fine, choose a partner however the "marital relationship" does not apply to the relationship you have entered.
This has been the definition of "Marriage" from the time this country was founded.
No I do not beleive that the Government can "Redefine" the Dictionary.

Mama Bear

Wed, May 18 2011, 11:50 pm

Marriage is a holy thing - perhaps one of the holiest things ever. The entire premise of the world is basically the marriage of G-d and His people, and so forth. Gay marriage is the exact opposite of holy - it's profane and an abomination. So yes - make it legal for a samesx couple to have the status of a family. Call it a civil union. Make it totall legal. But dont call it a marriage and dont put it on the same plane as the holiest union on earth - of a married husband and wife. Gay marriage aint holy.