making money with non kosher/prituz things

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Making money with non kosher/prituz things

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Crayon210

Fri, Oct 13 2006, 2:13 pm

amother wrote:

And yes crayon non jews and some even indian/muslim woman who were long skirts go to jewish clothing stores cause they can't find the cloth anywhere else.

Right, but they're not looking for skimpy shmattes.

Ribbie Danzinger

Sat, Oct 14 2006, 4:52 pm

The problem here is not actually the pritzus involved!

[b]There is an issur to gamble at all.[b]

Why would you want to help someone do that?

Check it out carefully.

chocolate moose

Sun, Oct 15 2006, 5:08 pm

Crayon, so when you visit C.H., you can have a word with the shopkeeper.

healthymama

Sun, Oct 15 2006, 5:14 pm

Quote:

Then maybe there's a problem with Jewish fashion.

That's one way to look at it. Another way is "or lagoyim"- that the Jewish fashions are attractive and appealing to all.

cindy324

Sun, Oct 15 2006, 8:39 pm

Quote:

The problem here is not actually the pritzus involved!

[b]There is an issur to gamble at all.[b]

Actually, that's not quite right. It is an issur to gamble against another jew, who you know will be very upset if he loses money to you. there's no actual Issur on that count when it comes to gambling in a casino, because their losses to you are not upsetting to them, because they usually will make more money than lose.

This is according to AskMoses.com

Quote:

Gambling with another person is forbidden, for any money that you win is given with a heavy heart. The other person would not have been willing to gamble had he originally known that he would lose, so the money won is not clean money.

According to Halacha a consistent gambler is actually unacceptable as a witness in a Jewish court of law.

A casino is different, for the casino is making enough money, and they figure that a certain percentage of the people will walk out with a profit. (In fact, it is to their obvious benefit that some people make money, otherwise no one would come.)

The problem with going to a casino is that you are supporting a wicked establishment. The havoc that casinos have wrought on many unfortunate families is well documented. We are commanded not to be "misaya'a ovray avayra" (supporters of evildoers).

Crayon210

Sun, Oct 15 2006, 10:18 pm

SaraG wrote:

Crayon, so when you visit C.H., you can have a word with the shopkeeper.

I don't go near those stores, are you kidding me? Why would I bother? Confused

TzenaRena

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 12:08 am

Quote:

While on this topic, what about frum storeowners who have non-tznius clothing in their stores that are sold to Jewish-frum customers? Things that can't and won't be fixed like too-short skirts?

My friend, who is a seamstress is now having this dilemma with her clients, who ask her to create unacceptable necklines, hemlines etc. on their clothes, she had a kallah who asked for a flesh colored lining on her gown..... Sad

She tries to convince the girls to let her do a more tzniusdik version. She said one mother cried and kissed her for working so hard to create a tzniusdik gown, against what the girl originally had in mind to her mother's dismay.

withhumor

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 7:08 am

Tell your seamstress friend that with enough emunah & bitachon, she will realize that if she tells a client ‘I’m sorry, I cannot do this kind of work for you’ she will merit a lot of bracha and Hatzlocha in her line of work. I see it daily for myself, B”H.

chocolate moose

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 7:33 am

Crayon, just a suggestion, since it seems to bother you so much.......

amother

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 7:35 am

I once had a seamstress who took it upon herself to decide what length my skirts and sleeves should be. (I should preface this by saying I have always worn tzniusdik clothes. ) Things she hemmed for me always seemed too long, and I thought it was because her mirror was at an angle that made things look shorter, so when a skirt in the mirror appeared to be, say midcalf, it was really just above the ankle. I measured one of my skirts that was a length I liked, wrote down the length, and told the seamstress to make my new skirt that length. I watched her write down the length I wanted. When I picked up the skirt, again it seemed too long. I measured it. It was X+2 inches long--exactly like all the other things she had made or hemmed for me. It was not my imagination and it was not the slanted mirror.

I did not appreciate a stranger deciding for me how long my skirts and sleeves were going to be. If she disapproved of my level of tznius, she did not have to accept my business.

I found a new seamstress. Immediately.

withhumor

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 7:49 am

Exactly my point. The seamstress has a right to do what she wants (but you don’t have to pay if she didn’t fulfill your service 100%). You found a new seamstress, right away and that’s perfect. Works well for everyone.

chocolate moose

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 8:35 am

I had a seamstress once and when she helped me out like that, I said THANK YOU! And was happy for her services!

chen

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 12:20 pm

you mean you don't mind your seamstress deciding for you what your level of tznius ought to be? you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

amother

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 4:44 pm

Original amother here I didn't know where this topic will take. But I have decided to not do this anymore. It is a dirty job and it gave a dirty feeling too. embarrassed

thanks to everyone for all your support.

TzenaRena

Mon, Oct 16 2006, 5:05 pm

chen wrote:

you mean you don't mind your seamstress deciding for you what your level of tznius ought to be? you're a better man than I am, Gunga Din.

chen, the level of tznius wasn't just 'lower', it was halachically unacceptable. My friend is completely "normal" in respect to tznius. She is not some holy rebbetzin. But these girls were completely departing from their parents' and all halachic standards. My friend cares too much for her clients to help them with their aveiros, and doesn't want to be an accomplice either.

What if a client calls for your advice before Shabbos, and you know with a certainty that they intend to carry out your advice on Shabbos, thereby violating Shabbos? Would it be allowed to give them that advice? I once had a situation like that, and didn't have time to call a Rav to ask a shailoh.

I just told the client that they shouldn't do it on Shabbos, and they told me that they intended to, because they don't keep Shabbos, and to them the matter was not something they wanted to delay. They were fairly angry that I should tell them something like that, and never called me back after Shabbos like I told them to.

Motek

Tue, Oct 17 2006, 1:48 pm

healthymama wrote:

That's one way to look at it. Another way is "or lagoyim"- that the Jewish fashions are attractive and appealing to all.

Pardon my ignorance but what is this "Jewish fashion" that is even appealing to non-Jews?

healthymama

Wed, Oct 18 2006, 9:49 pm

in lots of places long skirts are popular and there are many attractive tops with long sleeves now.

chen

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 7:34 am

Motek wrote:

healthymama wrote:

That's one way to look at it. Another way is "or lagoyim"- that the Jewish fashions are attractive and appealing to all.

Pardon my ignorance but what is this "Jewish fashion" that is even appealing to non-Jews?

This may shock you, but not all nonjewish women are exhibitionist sluts. Some of them actually value modesty, even if their standards of modesty do not exactly duplicate our own. (Some nonjeiwish women's standards appear to exceed our own, e.g. certain Moslem groups whose little girls cover their heads and necks with a hijab at all times.) A nonjewish woman who objects to thigh-high skirts, plunging decolletage, sleeveless or tight-fitting tops and so on may be very happy to shop in a frum store. One of my coworkers recently asked me where I buy my daughter's clothes, for precisely this reason. She has a young daughter and is horrified by what is sold in the regular teen shops.

happy2beme

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 9:45 am

Quote:

healthymama wrote:
That's one way to look at it. Another way is "or lagoyim"- that the Jewish fashions are attractive and appealing to all.

Quote:

Motek wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but what is this "Jewish fashion" that is even appealing to non-Jews?

A lot of 'Jewish' fashion contains classy styles.

When you're put together, you look good even if you're all covered up.

I always get compliments from my gentile manager- she totally doesn't dress covered up but she also admires classy designs.

She would wear one of my skirts, but would pair it up with a very untznius top to make up for the skirt Smile

Crayon210

Thu, Oct 19 2006, 9:59 am

chen wrote:

Motek wrote:

healthymama wrote:

That's one way to look at it. Another way is "or lagoyim"- that the Jewish fashions are attractive and appealing to all.

Pardon my ignorance but what is this "Jewish fashion" that is even appealing to non-Jews?

Right. So she too would not shop in Crown Heights. I did not mean my statements to demean non-Jews, but to express my disappointment at those in Crown Heights who patronize (or allow their daughters to patronize) frum stores that carry inappropriate clothes.

I cannot answer for Motek, though. ;-)

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