Home

Is this true or is it just something society feeds us?
1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Report offensive ad

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Poll

Can you achieve anything you set your mind to?
yes, if you try hard enough
 23%  [ 9 ]
no, hashem runs the world
 76%  [ 30 ]
Total Votes : 39


amother






Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 7:15 pm
Our society (in general) teaches us that if we want something badly enough we can achieve it.
In my life, I did not find that to be true. I've made sacrifices for my "dreams" and still circumstances, ordained by Hashem, prevented many of them from coming to fruition. I feel like we make choices, and we need to follow our heart as well as our mind but not in that order.
I'm wondering if this you can do anything, follow your heart culture is inaccurate or am I just making excuses for my life?
What do you think? Is this real? Is it Torah inspired?
Back to top

NotInNJMommy









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 7:25 pm
bklal there is yagati u'matzasi, taamin...

but, at the end of the day, H' controls our ultimate health, family, parnossah BH.

We can only control our mitzvos.

The challenge is that we must do our part to have good health, family, and parnossah...we cannot just wait for H' to do...
Back to top

chocolate moose









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 7:33 pm
amother wrote:
Our society (in general) teaches us that if we want something badly enough we can achieve it.


Of course not. I'm a realist.

amother wrote:
In my life, I did not find that to be true. I've made sacrifices for my "dreams" and still circumstances, ordained by Hashem, prevented many of them from coming to fruition. I feel like we make choices, and we need to follow our heart as well as our mind but not in that order.
I'm wondering if this you can do anything, follow your heart culture is inaccurate or am I just making excuses for my life?
What do you think? Is this real? Is it Torah inspired?


Did you want to be President? a ballerina? A millionaire?

Very few of those dreams come true.
Back to top

amother




Emerald


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 7:34 pm
Edited.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Jan 03 2016, 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

chocolate moose









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 7:37 pm
I think it's going to depend, too.

Now, if you want to master making a good Yerushalmi kugel or if you want a college degree, that's something else. You might have to ask for advice, borrow money or hire a tutor, but those are not outlandish dreams.
Back to top

zaq









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 7:42 pm
Depends on what you mean. If you are a double amputee, no matter how much you set your mind to it, you will not grow legs. No matter how much you set your mind to it you will not grow wings and fly. if you're 5 feet tall, chances are no matter how much you set your mind to it you will probably not play center for a pro basketball team. But if what you want is to be able to dance at your child's wedding, well, that may be possible, with prosthetic limbs or on your hands. otoh, the KBH rules the world, and at the end of the day you have to know that man proposes, G-d disposes. no matter how much your hishtadlus is, the KBH may have other plans. Still, you have to do your hishtadlus.
Back to top

imasinger









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 7:52 pm
What is "society in general?" Different societies throughout history have had differing views on success and failure, and our ability to influence the world. It strikes me as a peculiarly American notion that hard work is some sort of guarantee of success -- and not one that has been commonly held in all of America even during the relatively brief time of American history.

Nevertheless, I like the idea that we can do more than we think, and that determination can work wonders. Knowing when to keep trying and when to stop and accept H"s "no" for an answer is one of life's great challenges.
Back to top

sneakermom









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 8:54 pm
B'derech sheadum rotzeh leilech moliechin oso"

In the way a person wants to go Hashem walks him.

I'm a big believer in ratzon. I have seen it personally in my life that I desired something and kept my eye on that goal, despite great obstacles and Hashem has lead me there. So I would never underestimate the power of desire as well as it's subconscious influence on all the decisions we make.

But I also believe in accepting Hashem's will. If Hashem made me a certain way then I need to use those specifications to serve him in the way that suits me. Pursuing something that completely doesn't make sense is selfish and a waste of time.

And there is always the serenity prayer. "G-d give me the power to change the things I can change, to accept the things I can't change and the wisdom to know the difference."
Back to top

Grandmama









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 9:18 pm
OPINIONATED wrote:
I totally agree with you, NotInNJMommy! Thumbs Up

We have absolutely no control over our destiny!

Every day, in our prayers we say, "boruch Gozer Umekayem". Basically, Hashem decrees and carries them out.

However, praying and helping others can help change our lot in life.

I like to refer to this generation as the "Disney Society", where we all end up marrying a handsome prince and living happily ever after.

For example, I have seen many single men who never marry because they truly believe they are ENTITLED to a woman who is A. Pretty and B. Thin and C. 15 years younger and D. Willing to work full-time, all this, regardless if the man is overweight or has a good job.

I have met single women who refuse to marry because they believe they are ENTITLED to a man who is A. Rich and B. Handsome and C. Tall.

The root of these feelings of ENTITLEMENT is a lack of belief in Hashem, that Hashem decides what is best for us.


Why only this generation? I know plenty of men and women of the previous generations, who did not marry because they were still waiting for Prince Charming. They are still waiting, in their 50's and 60's and still dreaming.
We all have dreams, but some dreams are illusions.
In addition to rich, handsome, tall and dark, there have to be fine middos, yiras shomayim, and a good heart, and a romantic type to boot.
The men want the woman to be independently wealthy, with no family ties or issues, and very attractive. All the time.
This is not disneyland, this is dreamland.
Back to top

marina









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 9:36 pm
All of these sayings " we have no control over our destiny" and "if Hashem made me a certain way then I need to use those specifications to serve him in the way that suits me" mean something different to the person in this video.

Just saying.

Back to top

amother






Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 9:49 pm
Thank you, Marina. That was amazing.

Chazal do say "ein dovor omed bifnai haratzon".

Or, as Henry Ford (lehavdil) said, "Whether you believe you can do something, or you believe you can't, you're right".
Back to top

PinkFridge









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 10:22 pm
chocolate moose wrote:
I think it's going to depend, too.

Now, if you want to master making a good Yerushalmi kugel or if you want a college degree, that's something else. You might have to ask for advice, borrow money or hire a tutor, but those are not outlandish dreams.


That reminds me of a story. Napoleon had a few soldiers he wanted to reward. He asked the first, a Pole what his heart's desire was.
"Restore Poland, your excellency!"
"Yes! It shall be done!"
He asked the next what he wanted. Also, some grandiose request.
"Yes! It shall be done!"
Last came a Jew. "And what do you want?"
"Well, a piece of herring. And some kichel maybe."
Napoleon says to an aide, "Nu, so get this man his herring and kichel."
While the man is enjoying his herring and kichel the other two men rip into him. "You could have had anything! And this is what you ask for?"
The Jew shakes his head. "You? You think you're going to get Poland? And you, you're going to get whatever it was you asked for? Now I asked for a herring and kichel. And look: I got it."

Music Dreaaam, the possible dreeaaam!
Back to top

Simple1









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 10:41 pm
I think it is somewhat true -BUT you would really need to want it badly enough and be really really motivated to overcome difficult hurdles and to not take "no" for an answer.

And I don't think this goes against the Torah. It says "ein davar omaid bifnei haratzon" (where there's a will there's a way.") And also "In the way a person wants to go, Hashem leads him there.

Marina, your video is really powerful - maybe it even influenced my answer.

Edit: at the same time you do have to work within the constraints of physical realities, so only within reason can you really get what you want.


Last edited by Simple1 on Sun, May 29 2011, 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top

zaq









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 10:41 pm
Whether or not you can achieve anything you set your mind to, one thing is for sure: if you don't set your mind to it, you will for sure not achieve it. And as robert browning asserted, " a man's reach should exceed his grasp." Presumably a woman's, too.

OTOH...I compare 2 ppl I know, one of whom is pretty satisfied with life overall and the other who is pretty dissatisfied overall. Now here's the thing: they're living pretty much the same life b/c they're partners. But A never aspired to much more than being able to make a living and have a roof over her head, which she has, while B looks at people who have big houses and fancy cars and go on vacations and is jealous as all get out not to have that. So who's the smarter one here?
Back to top

lamplighter









  


Post  Sun, May 29 2011, 10:59 pm
Hollywood definitely feeds this axiom as does the "American dream", however real life results are in hashem's hands.
Two people can make the same choices and end up with different lives.
At some point a person needs to learn to accept the circumstances and work within them instead of spending their entire lives fighting for their dream. One has to calculate what is lost on the way.
Back to top

Isramom8









  


Post  Mon, May 30 2011, 12:40 am
We can accomplish more than we think. And less. Sometimes less is more.
Back to top

grin









  


Post  Mon, May 30 2011, 12:51 am
I think that when chazal talked about "ein davar ha'omed bifnei haratzon" [in other words, "it's all up to you"], they were referring to spiritual growth; whereas the physical and technical aspects of our lives (rich or poor, strong or weak, even where you live and who you marry) are very much dictated by HKBH - it's up to you how you respond to the circumstances of your life and what you do with them that's up to you.
Back to top

ora_43









  


Post  Mon, May 30 2011, 1:08 am
I agree with grin.

You can decide what kind of person you want to be. To some extent you can use willpower to shape your life - for example, if you're really determined to learn to play a new instrument, you'll probably be able to do it.

But no matter how determined you are to have a specific career or go to a certain school or have a certain job, ultimately that's not in your hands. For example for each Olympic athlete there are thousands who didn't make it, and not because of insufficient desire.

The people around us also get to make decisions, so if a person decides to work at a certain place but the boss decides not to hire them, or if a person decides to marry a certain woman but she decides not to marry him, it's not going to happen. Or a person decides her dream is to buy a house in Community A but her husband decides his dream is to learn in kollel in Community B, those won't both happen.

I think Torah supports the view of "yagati u'matzati taamin" and similar such things only in terms of personal thoughts, feelings, and actions. There's no Torah source saying you can be rich or can have good health or children or a long life just because you want it badly enough, AFAIK (prayer and maasim tovim can help, but aren't a guarantee).
Back to top

grin









  


Post  Mon, May 30 2011, 1:28 am
BTW, that video is incredibly inspiring - I admire Nick and his parents, who obviously instilled him with that wonderful attitude, even more.
Back to top

DrMom









  


Post  Mon, May 30 2011, 1:50 am
OPINIONATED wrote:
I totally agree with you, NotInNJMommy! Thumbs Up

We have absolutely no control over our destiny!

Every day, in our prayers we say, "boruch Gozer Umekayem". Basically, Hashem decrees and carries them out.

However, praying and helping others can help change our lot in life.

I like to refer to this generation as the "Disney Society", where we all end up marrying a handsome prince and living happily ever after.

For example, I have seen many single men who never marry because they truly believe they are ENTITLED to a woman who is A. Pretty and B. Thin and C. 15 years younger and D. Willing to work full-time, all this, regardless if the man is overweight or has a good job.

I have met single women who refuse to marry because they believe they are ENTITLED to a man who is A. Rich and B. Handsome and C. Tall.

The root of these feelings of ENTITLEMENT is a lack of belief in Hashem, that Hashem decides what is best for us.

I don't think the OP is talking about someone who feels they are ENTITLED to something and isn't willing to work hard toward that goal. In fact, such a person I would categorize more in the 'HaShem controls everything" camp than the "you can do anything you set your mind to" camp. Only their take is "HaShem controls everything and He will reward me without me having to lift a finger."

I think our actions have a lot of input into our own destiny. It depends on how much we are willing to sacrifice to attain these goals. Also, if you have too many goals which are each all time-consuming, then you may have difficulty achieving them. For example, it would be next to impossible to be U.S. President, a mother of 15 children, an astronaut, AND the world's first female NFL quarterback. Any one of these goals would take a lifetime of dedication. We need to define our goals ambitiously, but realistically.
Back to top
1, 2  Next Recent Topics

Page 1 of 2 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Similar Topics Replies Last Post
longer feeds 1 Wed, Dec 05 2007, 9:26 am View last post
Emma Feeds Dog... tooooooooo cute! 1 Sun, Mar 25 2007, 1:41 pm View last post
what feeds into Bruriah, Shulamith, MHS, SKA
by amother
13 Tue, Jan 12 2010, 2:19 pm View last post
Does anyone know how to get rid of the news feeds in Snapcha
by amother
5 Fri, Apr 13 2018, 10:15 am View last post
Honor Society
by amother
6 Tue, Feb 25 2014, 10:13 pm View last post

Jump to:  





Report offensive ad