Government Aid (Food Stamps and WIC)

Crayon210

Fri, Nov 03 2006, 2:59 pm

Blossom wrote:

Sarag I think if someone is living in the condition you mentioned, they should think about taking a break from having a baby every year. One can just burst Ch''v from so much pressure.

Or they can get government assistance and continue to have children.

chocolate moose

Fri, Nov 03 2006, 3:18 pm

Listen, I'm not judging anyone...but when we got married we takeh had all this debt to pay off and we weren't professionals.

We knew it wouldn't take forever, and babies are not made to order.

I'm glad I had my family and lived my life too!

You see, we finally bought an apt, despite all the hardships in our early mariage endured.

However, I will reiterate that never took a vacation, eat out much, have a car, or have a cleaning lady or other luxuries.

Piper

Sat, Nov 04 2006, 10:50 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Piper wrote:

A million dollar home? I would secretly report her.

That's assur too.

Why? That woman is hurting people. I would think that is much worse.

Piper

Sat, Nov 04 2006, 10:59 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

It's assur to report a Jew to secular authorities.

Alright, for the sake of argument, lets bump it up a notch: If you knew a Jewish person who just happens to have intentionally commited murder, should you not report him?

Crayon210

Sat, Nov 04 2006, 11:50 pm

According to the Rambam, a person can be reported to the secular authorities if he has committed a crime punishable by the secular government with death, or if his actions coud cause harm to other Jews.

Murder is a crime punishable by the secular auhorities with death, so yes, it would be okay according to the Rambam to report such a person.

But if CHV this comes up, ask your LOR.

tzipp

Sat, Nov 04 2006, 11:58 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Can you think of any crime that doesn't fit into this category?

I can't.

Crayon210

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 1:51 am

How is Sara Shprintza's taking money from the government illegally going to cause harm to the Jews?

I don't think the Rambam means theoretically, indirectly. I think he means...a Jew does this, it directly causes the non jews to do this (an example is in Sefer Shoftim when Shimshon kills Plishtim and the Plishtim threaten Shevet Yehuda, who gives Shimshon over so they don't get in trouble).

batya_d

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 2:08 am

Crayon210 wrote:

How is Sara Shprintza's taking money from the government illegally going to cause harm to the Jews?

Because as the above poster stated, the jewish family that deperately needed section 8 was denied it because their undeserving neighbors took a spot meant for those who really need it.

Crayon210

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 10:19 am

I don't think that's what the Rambam means by harm. He means that the non jews will attack the Jews to retaliate for what they did.

Somehow, I don't see the non jews attacking over Section 8. Unfortunately, it sounds like plenty of Jews would be happy to. Confused

tzipp

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 10:52 am

Crayon210 wrote:

I don't think that's what the Rambam means

How would you know what the Rambam means?
I guess you would have to ask a Rabbi...

Taking benifits without proper cause could cause harm to Jews in many ways-
chilull Hashem, denying others the benifits, taking tax dollars from other Jews who work hard and shouldn't have to subsidize other peoples selfishness- and they therefore have less money to support their own families, and how about the danger they put themselves in when they take the risk of being found out- I don't know for sure what the laws are but say the cheating a person ends up in Jail- is that not harm to other Jews- their own families and children?

Of course there are plenty of Jews who qualify and need services, and thank G-d they are available, but justifying cheating the government is just plain strange to me, honestly. shock

healthymama

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 11:37 am

Quote:

I don't think that's what the Rambam means by harm. He means that the non jews will attack the Jews to retaliate for what they did

If the only case (aside from capital crimes) in which you are allowed to report Jews to authorities is if you don't, the nonJews will attack specific Jews, then this means that we cannot report any Jews for :

child molestation/abuse
rape
physical abuse
domestic violence
fraud/cheating
refusing to give a get
selling treif meat

In all of the above cases, the nonJews are not going to go attack people if the crime is not reported. These are also all non-capital crimes. So please clarify- do you really mean to say that we cannot report Jews unless failure to report would result in a direct attack from the nonJews ?

Crayon210

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 2:51 pm

tzipp wrote:

Taking benifits without proper cause could cause harm to Jews in many ways-
chilull Hashem, denying others the benifits, taking tax dollars from other Jews who work hard and shouldn't have to subsidize other peoples selfishness- and they therefore have less money to support their own families, and how about the danger they put themselves in when they take the risk of being found out- I don't know for sure what the laws are but say the cheating a person ends up in Jail- is that not harm to other Jews- their own families and children?

The Rsmbam means physical retaliation, not whatever you're talking about.

Quote:

Of course there are plenty of Jews who qualify and need services, and thank G-d they are available, but justifying cheating the government is just plain strange to me, honestly. shock

I didn't justify cheating the government. I just said it's assur to turn in a Jew for it.

Piper

Sun, Nov 05 2006, 6:27 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

I don't think that's what the Rambam means by harm. He means that the non jews will attack the Jews to retaliate for what they did.

Somehow, I don't see the non jews attacking over Section 8.

Don't be so sure. We live in a society now where the "drive-by media" loves to cook up as much negative press as they possibly can. Can you imagine seeing this on the news? "Wealthy Orthodox Jews stealing $$ from the goverment-poor immigrant family cannot get housing, film at 11:00."