THE POPE - AND WHAT WE CAN LEARN

hardwrknmom

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 10:24 pm

Thank you Motek for agreeing with me!

What good did he do? He wanted the jews and muslims to unite?? Good morning america! When, where, what, and how will that ever come about! Everyone wants that to happen- its not only the pope.

Second world war- the dyes pope did absolutely nothing.

How about when the busses in Israel with innocent children woman and men are blown to shreds- he doesn't say a darn word about that..

Goes to show- a whole bunch of low lives.

deedee

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 11:23 pm

I am so grossed out! when I opened my internet, it automatically opens to MSN homepage, I was greated by the DEAD pope. shock

I am so not interested in seeing his DEAD body!!!!!
why do they have it on the homepage for everyone (kids) to see Confused

they should have it on a link about the pope so u can click on it if you are interested!
I dont see great rabbis funerals on the homepage! do we really have a separation of church and state? Rolling Eyes

amother

Sun, Apr 03 2005, 11:51 pm

ugh I want to puke~fear factor style shock

gryp

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:17 am

Quote:

shame on Jews who deny history and the butchery, maiming, forced conversions, blood libels, done to Jews by Christians, up to and including the previous Pope doing absolutely nothing to stop Jews from being murdered.

Thank you Motek!
personally I could never forget the hundreds and hundreds of years of tragedies that befell the Jewish people because of the church. just the word church not to mention cardinals, bishops, monks, etc, I associate with the inquisition and the crusades.

has anybody from the church ever apologized at least? how can anyone overlook what has happened and consider him a "great man" supposedly?

1stimer

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:21 am

Quote:

I dont see great rabbis funerals on the homepage! do we really have a separation of church and state?

afaik msn isn't run by the state... and we're living in galus...

1stimer

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:23 am

Quote:

Do you hold the same with Neturi Karta

I think it is worse, much worse, when jews, supposedly frum jews, side with the arabs. When they support arabs blowing up jews, I personally do not understand them.

Pearl

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:32 am

Quote:

1stimer wrote:

Quote:

Do you hold the same with Neturi Karta

I think it is worse, much worse, when jews, supposedly frum jews, side with the arabs. When they support arabs blowing up jews, I personally do not understand them.

with this I agree....

I heard on the news he (the pope) didn't do anything to protect Jews in WW2, although he had plenty opportunity to do so. He was a pope with extremely effective public relations, and the first to utter some kind of apology - a very slim one in my opinion "I regret that some chr used violence against others" or something vague like that....come on, not a very convincing apology!
I also heard a Jew is thought of as his successor.....ironic!

1stimer

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:34 am

Pearl wrote:

I also heard a Jew is thought of as his successor.....ironic!

Well, a jew started the religion Very Happy

Pearl

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:38 am

haha, indeed!

AweSumThenSum

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:40 am

y did the tone of this thread take on such a hostile tone??????? we don't need the non jews to love us, we just need to be left alone. the pope, like all people, lived a life of good and bad deeds, in varying degrees of each at different points in his life.
I don't think the pope or any [gentile] is worthy of having us divide over their issues.

Pearl

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:46 am

now, that's true too, thank you awesum embarrassed

timeout

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 10:47 am

Wether he was a good Pope or bad Pope what he did behind closed doors without the media listening in we'll never know.

Hopefully the next Pope won't be any worse to the Jews than this one was and there are plenty of Catholics and non Jews who are very pro Jewish who think Jews are the chosen nation.

Nothing is Black and White some people just hate because they don't know or there parents taught them to bbelive this way.

My husband was saying it's worse in Israel with the non Frum yidden that hate the Frum people because of the way they are not going to the army having so many kids husbands not working...............

ForeverYoung
Guest

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 12:17 pm

Quote:

I also heard a Jew is thought of as his successor

a disater in making.........

AweSumThenSum

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 1:05 pm

fy, y do u think having a jew succeed john paul as pope is such a disaster? this guy knows he was born jewish, knows that his parents gave him to a non jewish family during the war, and he is not a hater of jews. if he made it up the ranks in the church, dont u think he is worth something? and no, he was not promoted because the church wanted to rub our faces in a "jewish cardinal". besides, a story is told that lustiger (the heir apparent) went to visit his jewish family in israel. they are not frum btw. and when they confronted him with "y r u x jewish? y do u behave this way? etc..." he replied w/ "I am more moral than u r, and also more religious" I think his answer was very touche under the circumstances. the fact is that he did not ask to be placed w/ a non jewish family, even though that fact probably saved his life, and if he was raised as a catholic then he is making the best of his life as a catholic by behaving as a moral human being in the priesthood. of course I'd much rather he return to the fold, but short of that, this is the best we can hope for.

ForeverYoung
Guest

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 1:28 pm

Quote:

if he made it up the ranks in the church, dont u think he is worth something?

his personal achievements do not bother me

it is never good 4 the Jews to have Jewish people in high positions -

whatever they will do will be reacted to: "ah, u c, he's helpng his Jews" or "sure, he's Jewish, that's why he's so against .......(whatever)", "he's one of the elders of zion", etc........

Tefila

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 5:08 pm

Charlene Gubash msnbc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A political cartoon in Monday's pan-Arab Al Hayat newspaper summed up the sentiment here to the death of Pope John Paul II: a tearful world bade farewell as the pontiff retreated to a starlit heaven.

The pope gained Arab respect through his unprecedented efforts to promote dialogue between the Catholic Church and Muslim leaders, his unfailing support for the rights of the Palestinian people, and his firm stand against the war in Iraq.

By his example of humility, respect for non-Christians, and his unfailing support of human rights, he touched the hearts of Muslims and Christians alike during his Holy Land tour to Jerusalem, Amman, Beirut, Cairo and Damascus.

He made history during the trip by being the first pope to visit a mosque and a synagogue. His death united Christians and Muslims, moderate and fundamentalist, in sadness. Leaders from throughout the region made statements praising his contributions to dialogue and efforts towards peace.

In Egypt, the most populous Arab country, with a Catholic population of just 250,000, President Mubarak declared three days of mourning and praised the pontiff for his "long journey of giving, during which he remained a symbol of love and peace and one who called for dialogue between religions."

Muslim world
The highest religious authority in Sunni Islam, Sheikh Tantawi, head of Egypt's Al Azhar Mosque, called his death "a great loss for the Catholic Church and the Muslim world....He was a man who defended the values of justice and peace and worked for the victory of relations between the Muslim and Christian people based on friendship and love." In Cairo, at the headquarters of the Arab League, the flag flew at half-staff.

Jordan's King Abdullah expressed deep grief and said the pope, "devoted his life to calling for solidarity between rich and poor countries, peace, freedom, love and alleviation of suffering," and made tangible contributions to legitimate Arab issues.

In a cable to the Vatican, President Bashar al Assad of Syria expressed his sorrow and recalled the pope's visit to Damascus during which the pontiff expressed his strong belief in fraternity between Christianity and Islam and his defense for the Palestinian people.

In Lebanon, home to a million Catholics, the government declared three days of mourning.

Iran's President Khatami said the Pope commanded the three paths of religious learning: philosophical thought and poetic and artistic creativity.

Perhaps most telling, al-Jazeera TV and al-Arabiya TV, the most widely watched satellite news networks in the region, provided live coverage from the Vatican, and discussed the pope's contributions to interfaith dialogue, human rights and Arab causes.

Sheikh Qardawi, a popular Sunni cleric who appears regularly on al-Jazeera, praised the pope's "unforgettable stands against the war in Iraq and the separation wall in the West Bank," and asked for Muslims to give their condolences to Christians. His remarks were posted on a militant website.

Al Manar TV, run by Hezbollah, Lebanon's Shiite fundamentalist group, interrupted programming to announce the Pope's death.

Their spiritual leader, Ayatollah Mohamed Hussein Fadlallah, expressed hope that the "course of dialogue charted by the Holy See will lead to all regions converging on faith in God."

A message attributed to the militant Palestinian group, Hamas, was posted on a militant website in which the group praised the pontiff and voiced hope the Vatican would continue to support the Palestinian people.

In evidence that the pope's outreach to Muslims was felt by even some of the most extremist groups, Afghanistan's Taliban acknowledged the "spiritual loss to Catholics worldwide" and said in a statement that "even though some had launched a Crusader war against Islam, the pope's voice was for bringing peace to the world

Leagal Eagal

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 6:47 pm

I think the pope excelled in addressing the most pressing issues of each religion/sect. To the Arabs he acknowledged their "struggle" with the Palestinian "issue", to the Jews he acknowledged the Shoah (the first church representative to do so), to the Africans he sympathized with their civil unrest, and the list goes on.

Motek

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 6:49 pm

Leagal Eagal wrote:

To the Arabs he acknowledged their "struggle" with the Palestinian "issue"

and welcomed and shook hands with their murderer leader

Leagal Eagal

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 6:54 pm

The pope must have realized that you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar. You have to look at things from his perspective and not from the propsective of a Jewish person. Yes, I would much rather he did not visit with Arafat, but I think it points to his character and level headedness that he was able to overlook Arafat's faults and still meet with him and hear him out. We cannot expect the world at large to bear our grudge, and I'm sure the arabs feel the same way about the pope's visit to Israel, that he met with "thos murderous Jews" and he "shook the hand of that terrible Israeli prime minister" etc....

Rivka

Mon, Apr 04 2005, 7:21 pm

I think alot of people are thinking the last Pope was the same Pope during WWII, just because he is so old doesn't mean he was the Pope then. He was actually at the time a Priest and then he became Archbishop in Poland.
So really get your facts right. The Pope during WWII, that was Pope Pius XII this was Pope John Paul. Secondly the Pope during WWII was not a good person. The past Pope helped Jewish children in WWII by not making them baptized when really he had no reason not to do so as that was what the Pope at the time said for them to do.
He shook Arafats hand, big deal, so did the Presidents of America and so did that Israeli Prime Minister, forgot his name already.
I don't think the Pope sided with anyone, he was being diplomatic. Tony Blair shook hands with that terrorist Libyan Qadhafi, does that mean I think he's a terrible person? No, it just means I don't agree with it but it doesn't automatically make him evil. No-body is saying the Pope loved Jews, but why suddenly all out to hate someone who really didn't do anything majorly wrong.