Did you ever have to buy Treif on the job?

Flowerchild

Mon, Nov 13 2006, 7:38 pm

what if you have no choice??? what if this is the place where you work and the rules you have to follow???? everyone has their own rabbi they ask these questions to, so dont assume that halacha is being broken you, you always make these statements that are very irritating. you always seem to assume that everyone around you is breaking halacha, who said that these people dont ask their rabbis??????????? what if a man has to support his familly and the only job he finds is in a corporate world and not in a jewish place? if you work for a specific employer and there are certain rules you have to follow then thats what you do and obviously and religious jew will consult his/her rabbi.

Crayon210

Mon, Nov 13 2006, 7:56 pm

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

what if you have no choice???

If someone threatens your life if you don't buy treif, then most of the time it's fine.

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what if this is the place where you work and the rules you have to follow????

What about the fact that Jews follow the Shulchan Aruch, not the office?

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everyone has their own rabbi they ask these questions to,

That was my point, to know if people actually ask questions. I'm not really interested in their personal answers.

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so dont assume that halacha is being broken

I didn't assume it was being broken, I just wanted to know if people ask questions before saying, "Well, it's my job."

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you, you always make these statements that are very irritating.

Thank you.

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you always seem to assume that everyone around you is breaking halacha,

No, I don't, thanks.

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who said that these people dont ask their rabbis???????????

I don't know. Who said that?

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what if a man has to support his familly and the only job he finds is in a corporate world and not in a jewish place?

That's fine. Lots of people don't work in the frum world. But I would hope that they don't think that working in the secular world is an excuse to break halacha and/or not ask a rav a shaila.

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if you work for a specific employer and there are certain rules you have to follow then thats what you do and obviously and religious jew will consult his/her rabbi.

Right. They consult the rabbi to make sure they're allowed to follow the rules. That was my point.

Crayon210

Mon, Nov 13 2006, 8:06 pm

If it's assur for whatever reason to buy treif food for someone, then it doesn't matter if it's your "job" to do it or not. A person needs to ask a rav and go according to what the rav says.

In the 1930s, Jews were fired for not working on Shabbos. Was it okay for people to work on Shabbos because that was the rule?

If a rav assurs both of these things, what's the difference?

micki

Mon, Nov 13 2006, 11:16 pm

when there was a girl missing in CT. suri? I think was her name? they organized many communities to have searches and being the closest girls high school we volunteered to help prepare food.
I remember we were given ham to make sandwhiches, and we asked a rav if we were permitted to make them.
he said because its for pikuach nefesh then yes. (to feed the searchers to help find her) otherwise he said it is not permitted.

you need to ask if you are permitted to do that.
and what with the fighting moose? crayon raised legitimate Q's and you got very defensive!
hmmmm...

JRKmommy

Wed, Nov 15 2006, 12:10 pm

Perhaps, if this is something that is bothering you (and I assume it is), asking a question of a rav may not be a bad idea. For all you know, there may be things that you can do, or ways in which you can do them, which are permissible.

This may be a crazy example - but you don't need a hechsher on cat food (except for Pesach). So it's fine for a Jew to buy it, because the Jew clearly isn't the one who's going to eat it. If I ever had a secretary pick up some food for a meeting, and it wasn't just an internal office event where she'd be eating as well, I'd be pretty shocked and disgusted if she went ahead and ate food that I had paid for and which was meant for my clients. So, in that situation, I'm wondering if it could be like the cat food example - the secretary is clearly just the messanger and it was never intended to be food that was "hers".

JRKmommy

Fri, Nov 24 2006, 1:26 am

If someone is dressed in office clothes, during business hours (so they aren't picking up something for home), and is clearly picking up a quantity of food that is meant for more than one person, I'd assume that they are picking it up for a group at the workplace. Call me elitist, but I wouldn't expect the boss to do the shlepping, so it would be reasonable to conclude that a secretary is doing the job. The classic sign, for me, would be seeing someone carrying out more than one coffee.

Crayon210

Fri, Nov 24 2006, 12:53 pm

JRKmommy wrote:

I wouldn't assume that. Confused

amother

Sun, Dec 03 2006, 5:16 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

you are perfect crayon and noone else is. I think the reason why choc is saying that, is when you work in a certain type or enviorment where people probably couldnt care less of what you keep, and to keep your job and not get in to trouble unfortunetly you have to go buy things that you wouldnt. people who work in high places are often subject to that.

I didn't say anything about being perfect. That was ... rude and uncalled for.

I don't care where you work, if something is questionable, you ask a rav. If the rav says no, it's no. I don't buy into all this shtus about getting into trouble to keep your job, etc. If it's assur, it's assur, and doing the right thing is worth more than your job.

I have seen many of the above posters commemnts made in this manner. And to be very honest, it angers me. It seems to be VERY selfrightious and concited. Please understand that not all of us see things as cut and dry as you do. And too, we can only go by what we read of your posts. So if you are going to be coy and only project your self in this manner, than you are going to have to deal with comments like this.

However, being that I am a working mother, and the ONLY income at this time, assur or not, I have to be able to keep a job. I like my home, I like my electric, and now that it is getting cold my heat. If I werev to ask my Rav. if something was permitted, and the answer was no, does that mean that the Rav will help my family with the day to day living expenses until I can find a job that will let me have Shabbot and other "jewish" holidays off. Once I am released form my employment for whatever reason?

Contrary to popular belief, finding a job that lets you have this kind of flexiablity, ie Friday nights off and Saturadys off, all jewish holidays and other, what employer's deam "restrictions". Is not that easy at all. At lest here in the Southwestern part of PA.

Oh and I am writing under Imamother, cause I don't feel confortable letting people know who I am. I guess you can say that I am lacking courage right now.

Crayon210

Sun, Dec 03 2006, 5:20 pm

amother wrote:

You are being extremely obnoxious. My comments shouldn't anger you. I am not self-righteous or conceited. I just know that in a situation like this, you call a rav. That's all. That's about all that's cut and dry. That's why I think you should speak to a rav in this situation: because things AREN'T cut and dry.

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However, being that I am a working mother, and the ONLY income at this time, assur or not, I have to be able to keep a job. I like my home, I like my electric, and now that it is getting cold my heat. If I werev to ask my Rav. if something was permitted, and the answer was no, does that mean that the Rav will help my family with the day to day living expenses until I can find a job that will let me have Shabbot and other "jewish" holidays off. Once I am released form my employment for whatever reason?

You are making it obvious that your job comes before halacha. That's fine for you if that's what you want to do, but don't pretend that I'm the one who's wrong here. You are.

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Contrary to popular belief, finding a job that lets you have this kind of flexiablity, ie Friday nights off and Saturadys off, all jewish holidays and other, what employer's deam "restrictions". Is not that easy at all. At lest here in the Southwestern part of PA.

It might not be easy, but it is assur to work on Shabbos and Yom Tov. I don't think you need to ask a rav about that, that's one of the few things that's cut and dry, and I don't think anyone is going to disagree with that.