When an overabundance of tragedies strike in one family...

Motek

Thu, Nov 23 2006, 4:16 pm

amother wrote:

Are you saying- if bad things happen repeatedly, they must have done something to deserve it?

I don't think there's any Gadol that would agree to that theory.

I wasn't proposing a theory and your rewrite of what I wrote bears no resemblance to what I wrote.

mimsy7420

Thu, Nov 23 2006, 4:18 pm

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

How do we explain an overabundance of tragedies in any one family?

Maybe the family themselves can come up with an explanation. Maybe they have information that others aren't privy to.

They usually have no idea.

lubcoralsprings

Thu, Nov 23 2006, 4:19 pm

only1 wrote:

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

How do we explain an overabundance of tragedies in any one family?

Maybe the family themselves can come up with an explanation. Maybe they have information that others aren't privy to.

They usually have no idea.

amother

Thu, Nov 23 2006, 4:20 pm

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

How do we explain an overabundance of tragedies in any one family?

Maybe the family themselves can come up with an explanation. Maybe they have information that others aren't privy to.

How? Can you explain why bad things have happened to you?

livalittle

Thu, Nov 23 2006, 4:30 pm

I once read - and I'll try to find the source - when the Lubavitcher Rebbe was adressing the issue of the holocaust - that one may not justify pain because it is limiting Hashem. And even if this statement is inaccurate, I don't think we have the right to justify anyone else's tragedies or even our own.
Of course we need to grow from our struggles but we should never say - thi and this happened because I did this and this...
"We must translate pain into actions and tears into growth"

chen

Fri, Nov 24 2006, 12:09 pm

I prefer not to speculate as to why a particular individual or family --Jewish or not-- has a disproportionate measure of tzoros. It's not my business and we can't know, anyway. The Abishter has His reasons. I am merely grateful that I am not B"H in that category.

Motek

Sat, Nov 25 2006, 6:57 pm

chen wrote:

Definitely a good approach when it's someone else.

When it's the person him/herself, the Gemara says, "when yisurim come upon a person, he should examine his deeds."

amother

Sat, Nov 25 2006, 10:08 pm

Motek wrote:

chen wrote:

Definitely a good approach when it's someone else.

When it's the person him/herself, the Gemara says, "when yisurim come upon a person, he should examine his deeds."

Do you consider not having children Yesurim? Why were some of our biggest Rabbonim childless?

Motek

Sat, Nov 25 2006, 10:13 pm

amother wrote:

Do you consider not having children Yesurim?

I wonder what the Gemara is referring to with the word "yisurim." It doesn't use the word "tzaros."

Quote:

Why were some of our biggest Rabbonim childless?

Do you think it was the same answer for each one of them?!

withhumor

Sat, Nov 25 2006, 10:20 pm

I personally know a family who is very close to us. The mother passed away before 50 from a variety of illnesses, many of them very painful after years of suffering. She left the father with a family of children, all of them suffering from major health issues. That house is plagued by tzores and they are living from tzedakka exclusively yet I always wonder, is it our duty to ask WHY from Hashem, or is it our duty to ask WHY from ourselves. We need examine ourselves first before we rush to conclude otherwise.

amother

Sun, Nov 26 2006, 11:09 am

Motek wrote:

amother wrote:

Do you consider not having children Yesurim?

I wonder what the Gemara is referring to with the word "yisurim." It doesn't use the word "tzaros."

Quote:

Why were some of our biggest Rabbonim childless?

Do you think it was the same answer for each one of them?!

Who would you suggest people go to to get the answer to why they have their Yesurim?

Do you believe that any one person would know for sure? Wouldn't it be like going to ten different doctors and getting 5 different diagnoses.

I can only answer with one answer. Only one Hashem knows for sure. Ain Od Milvado. Do you differ with that opinion?

Motek

Sun, Nov 26 2006, 5:22 pm

amother wrote:

Who would you suggest people go to to get the answer to why they have their Yesurim?

Only someone very extraordinary and no, I have no recommendations.

Quote:

I can only answer with one answer. Only one Hashem knows for sure. Ain Od Milvado. Do you differ with that opinion?

I think there are rare individuals who are given the siyata dishmaya or even the ruach ha'kodesh to know. One has to be very careful though, not to be drawn in by charlatans.

Another point to add to the discussion - the concept of reincarnation/gilgul, that we are all "recycled" neshamos and are put into situations to rectify things from previous gilgulim.

amother

Sun, Nov 26 2006, 5:31 pm

Motek wrote:

I think there are rare individuals who are given the siyata dishmaya or even the ruach ha'kodesh to know.

Is there any one or more in specific, alive today, that you would put in that category? If yes, who?

amother

Mon, Nov 27 2006, 12:04 pm

amother wrote:

Motek wrote:

I think there are rare individuals who are given the siyata dishmaya or even the ruach ha'kodesh to know.

Is there any one or more in specific, alive today, that you would put in that category? If yes, who?

Just curious, can anyone think of someone that they would put in that category?

Motek

Sun, Jan 14 2007, 9:33 am

I read that R' Pinchas of Koretz, student of the Baal Shem Tov, said that if someone suffers greatly and feels a judgment is hanging over his head, he should daven, asking with all his heart to have the reason for the suffering revealed to him, for Hashem never causes anything to happen without a reason, and a person should try to understand what's behind all his trials and tribulations.

amother

Sun, Jan 14 2007, 9:47 am

Motek wrote:

Not all Rebbes/Rabonim agree. They say you do your best and don't judge or second guess Hashem.

amother

Sun, Jan 14 2007, 9:58 am

Motek wrote:

How is that disagreeing with davening to Hashem and asking for insight?

Only a true Navi or person of Ruach Hakodesh could understand why things happen. If the average person has a dream or a thought in their head, do they really know the true meaning of it?

amother

Sun, Jan 14 2007, 10:23 am

Motek wrote:

You don't seem to be understanding what R' Pinchas of Koretz said.

Please explain Exclamation

Only a true Navi or person of Ruach Hakodesh could understand why things happen. If the average person has a dream or a thought in their head, do they really know the true meaning of it? Let's say I had a dream that was supposed to reveal why certain things are happening- What am I Yosef Hatzadik that can interpret dreams or a Ba'al Ruach Hakodesh Question