Yated Chinuch Roundtable Homeschooling

farm

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 4:58 pm

Fox wrote:

I hate to sound cynical, but I've long since stopped purchasing the Yated. I find it to be a corrosive influence in many ways, and the fact that it is "kosher" makes it all the more dangerous.

Don't worry Fox, I don't purchase the Yated either. It was given to me as a gift (and I am not complaining- now that I read it, there are certain features I enjoy, and the magazine usually has great short stories for children). However, I would not use this column as an example of dangerous corrosive influence that looks kosher. I think many of the mechanchim often give opinions that do not toot the party line and they often disagree with each other, proving that even among the chareidi population, there are many opinions and no one right one when it comes to chinuch.

yaelinIN

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 9:02 pm

Sorry for not being a part of the afternoon's conversation.

I was out since 2pm until just now hanging out with 6 HSing moms and one wanna be HSing mom and our collective ka"h 30 kids (too many to easily count!). The moms talked about life, ate cookies, and perused home education materials that some of us brought. The kids were mostly outside (thank you H' for the relatively nice weather) playing tag, playing football, making a birthday party for one of the kids, swinging, reading books and playing lego inside. Then about half of us came over to my house at 5pm for hanging out at the Aldrichs, mostly inside playing Lego, make believe and other fun stuff. Then we all crowded into three vans and went for pizza. We took up a good chunk of the store, but all went relatively well! Thank G-d we do this in some form or shape a couple of times a month in addition to the HS swim classes, the martial arts lessons, ballet lessons and other times to hang out with others besides our families.

As you can plainly see, socialization happens even for homeschooling families. Many of us think the first and best socialization begins at home with ones family members and slowly grows to encompass others. I cannot comprehend how none of these mechanchim know absolutely no "normal" (meaning not forced by extreme circumstances) HS families. But I guess they have never encountered families who do not wish to give over all responsibility to others to educate and mold their children. Here we are and here we are to stay!

Come on over sometime Rabbonim! We'd love to have you and teach you something about homeschooling.

chavamom

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 9:14 pm

Fox wrote:

I hate to sound cynical, but I've long since stopped purchasing the Yated. I find it to be a corrosive influence in many ways, and the fact that it is "kosher" makes it all the more dangerous. Like so many media outlets in the U.S., it has discovered that circulation is bolstered by polarizing sides on various issues.

Home-schooling can be done well or badly -- just like any other kind of education.

My biggest quibble is the concept that "running from a problem" is always a bad thing. It's true that if your child has the problem, then home-schooling will not make it disappear magically. However, there are some situations in which the school is the problem, and many, many situations in which the school and the child are simply "not a shidduch."

If you happen to live in an area where there are plenty of options, simply switching to another school makes sense. However, not everyone has multiple options, and sometimes schools within a community are run by people with the same background and/or outlook -- making such a switch useless.

In such cases, it's smart to "run away from the problem."

THIS! All of it!

MaBelleVie

Tue, Feb 14 2012, 9:20 pm

chavamom wrote:

Fox wrote:

THIS! All of it!

Yup yup.

I wonder if other people also find a greater need to censor Jewish publications than secular ones?

Happy Mom

Wed, Feb 15 2012, 5:42 am

Tova wrote:

I'd love for them to meet Happy Mom's kids (who I just "know" from her blog) and then to find out that they have been mostly homeschooled.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Tova! BH, we've had a lot of siyata dishmaya and this was my big fear about sending my kids to school this year, having had the results we've had with the older kids and knowing the younger kids won't be able to have the benefits of homeschooling as part of their emotional development. Homeschooling changes you for the better, it matures kids, it gives them time to come into themselves without the external pressures that may not be in line with their needs or abilities...

As I read through all of the roundtable responses (which was actually painful since there's clearly no firsthand experience with dedicated homeschooling families), I kept thinking of all the many, many compliments my children have gotten over the years. But you know what? When someone is against homeschooling, the facts really won't matter.

An anti-homeschooling family member said to me a couple of years ago: I see your children are unusually bright, aware of and interested in the world around them, they get along well with people of all ages, and they have a good self image. I see the kids their age all around, and I see this is unique. Me: I think they are average children who had the advantage of being educated in an atypical framework that accounts for most of that. Him: No, homeschooling is damaging to kids. You're good parents so your kids came out well in spite of it, and if they had gone to school, they would have turned out even better. Rolling Eyes

And believe me, if anything about your child isn't wonderful, you'll hear how it's because they homeschooled! At a recent meeting with a principal of one of my elementary aged kids, they blamed all the difficulties he's having on never having been in a school framework. When I asked they specifically what they thought he was missing and how that was affecting him now, they said he had never had friends because he was homeschooled so he clearly didn't know how to get along with others. They were shocked when I told him that of course he had friends - they had to ask details of what he did with his friends because they couldn't believe it (playing together for hours, doing activities together, going on trips - you know, the stuff kids do with friends). And only then would they concede that the social issue is coming from him being unable to speak Hebrew with his classmates (which you would think would be obvious for an oleh).

Are there negatives of homeschooling? Obviously. But what they are will depend on who you are. For me, the hardest thing was that my house didn't stay at the level of clean that I wanted for long. The other thing, and I always, always tell people this is the hardest thing about homeschooling - emotionally it takes a lot of strength and belief in yourself to continue, and you have to learn to deal with your fears and the doubts in your mind about doing something different than other people. This is the hardest thing about homeschooling, to be able to read what the 'experts' are saying about you and what you're doing, hear what people are saying (which eventually mostly turns into glowing praise if you stick with it long enough - your results will show and there's nothing for people to argue with anymore), to have the courage to do what you believe, even when you're doubting yourself. You need to be able to find answers for those doubts and take necessary steps when things aren't working the way you want.

There are answers for everything else (even the issue of clean Smile

), but if you can't do this, homeschooling will always be a struggle.

Anyway, off to a PTA meeting to talk about how to fit my child into the school box!

curlgirl

Wed, Feb 15 2012, 7:41 am

Seraph wrote:

curlgirl wrote:

So what are the negatives of homeschooling?

The biggest negative is parents have very little free time without their kids around, so if you get overwhelmed by the presence of your kids and need a regular break from them it doesnt work.
Its hard to go to ladies only get togethers because your kids are home and kids arent usually welcome at these things and its harder to find day time babysitters for older kids during the middle of the school day.
Your house gets messier because its used more.
You have to deal with people and institutions marginalizing you because they have outdated and biased ideas about homeschooling.

Those are the biggest ones I can think of at the moment.

Thanks for responding.

I am worried about the "no break" part. Even now, working full-time, I still have Friday mornings to get things done for a few hours. I can't imagine not having even that! I like being around my kids, but the idea of being everything for them all the time is very daunting!

Also, doing something that all the professionals we generally trust- meaning doctors, educators and Rabbis- would say is not best for your child? How do you gain the confidence to do that?

I am considering trying this for a year with children who will be ages 2.5 and 4. In Israel this is definitely considered "homeschooling", especially for the older one who can go to gan for free.

Happy Mom

Wed, Feb 15 2012, 7:53 am

curlgirl wrote:

Seraph wrote:

curlgirl wrote:

So what are the negatives of homeschooling?

I am worried about the "no break" part. Even now, working full-time, I still have Friday mornings to get things done for a few hours. I can't imagine not having even that! I like being around my kids, but the idea of being everything for them all the time is very daunting!

Also, doing something that all the professionals we generally trust- meaning doctors, educators and Rabbis- would say is not best for your child? How do you gain the confidence to do that?[/quote]

I don't agree about having no break - I would say it's more that you have to learn how to create breaks for yourself rather than automatically have them planned for you based on your kids' schedule. I think most mothers would feel more than a little overwhelmed at the idea of no time for herself - I for sure would. I've never had cleaning help, babysitting help, my husband worked long hours and was usually away, no family close by to help out, my kids were close together in age - but I found ways to create a break in my schedule. You have to, or you'll get burnt out. No one can go and go and go without taking time to refresh herself.

curlgirl wrote:

Also, doing something that all the professionals we generally trust- meaning doctors, educators and Rabbis- would say is not best for your child? How do you gain the confidence to do that?

Not everyone disagrees - as you read more and more, you'll find people who think homeschooling is great. And much more than that, you'll find many, many educators who unequivocably agree with the principles of what you're doing. You're right, though, in the frum community there's a low level of awareness about what homeschooling entails so there is less positive feedback there. Keep your eye on your principles and don't get distracted by the smaller issues.

morah

Wed, Feb 15 2012, 7:55 am

I plan on sending my kids to school, though I'm not averse to considering homeschooling if it becomes necessary for whatever reason. I don't know much about it, but I do no this discussion was filled with a ton of misinformation and also unfairly tilted- how the heck can you really call it a "panel discussion" with only SCHOOL principals? You need at least one panelist who is either a homeschooler or someone who has studied homeschooling. This is like having a discussion about natural birth, but only doctors and no midwives on the panel.

BTW, I met 3 people in college who had been homeschooled all the way through (seminary/college was their first time in school). They were all really bright, far academically superior to the majority of the other students, and definitely not weird at all. You only knew they had been homeschooled because you asked where they went to high school. 2 of them are married now, so shidduchim clearly not a problem. I know homeschooling can be done badly (and it's terrible when that happens) but done right, it can be amazing- and generally, the kind of parents who choose to be that invested are the kind of parents who will do the work necessary to do it well.

curlgirl

Wed, Feb 15 2012, 8:50 am

Quote:

I don't agree about having no break - I would say it's more that you have to learn how to create breaks for yourself rather than automatically have them planned for you based on your kids' schedule. I think most mothers would feel more than a little overwhelmed at the idea of no time for herself - I for sure would. I've never had cleaning help, babysitting help, my husband worked long hours and was usually away, no family close by to help out, my kids were close together in age - but I found ways to create a break in my schedule. You have to, or you'll get burnt out. No one can go and go and go without taking time to refresh herself.

Happy Mom, thank you for responding.

So, how DID you manage when your kids were little?
I do involve them in what I'm doing as much as possible, but still...

About homeschooling in general, I feel like alot of the issues homeschooling parents deal with are issues all parents *should* be dealing with (best ways to teach, discipline, knowing your kids' needs and personalities, how to LIVe with them without getting rid of them). But when kids are in school there's less of a need to take responsibility for your kids' upbringing.

little_mage

Wed, Feb 15 2012, 9:17 am

I don't remember the exact quote, and I'm too lazy to go back through all three pages of the thread to look for it, but somewhere it was mentioned that BTs and Gerim "catch up" to yeshiva educated people within two or three years. This is one of the reasons my husband is completely opposed to day school-because (he's a ger) he knows more kodesh after three years (well, it's been five or six now, but) then some of his friends who went to day school their whole life do. It seems to me, based on admittedly anecdotal evidence, that schools can be either strong in secular subjects or in kodesh subjects. I have a bit of a problem with that.

While we haven't started anything formal, since our son is less then a year old, we do plan on homeschooling, and have our philosophy all picked out.