Spinoff - Large families thread

MamaBear

Fri, Feb 24 2012, 11:04 am

Well then Ruchel your child is a genius and so were you and no help was needed. But the average child needs some direction and guidance. That doesn't mean doing their homework for them but it means they have a few questions about their homework and need some amount of help here and there. I think this is a parent's responsibility. Maybe such a laissez faire approach is a French thing but in America it's lazy parenting. Parents are expected to be involved here and I agree with that. Especially for elementary age kids who are not mature enough to "fly" on their own.

And believe it or not, many kids struggle and need a lot more than the above. Hiring a high school girl or tutor is not always an option financially.

MamaBear

Fri, Feb 24 2012, 11:21 am

I expect my oldest to do his homework, too. And he expects me to help him when he doesn't understand the directions (which is not frequently, btw). Homework is done at home, where there are no teachers to assist; the kids do not review the instructions at school before they leave. Assisting a child is not doing their work for them, nor does it even mean sitting down with them.

Back to the the gist of the thread. OP, you can't do everything at once and as your kids get older you'll simply accept that and change your standards/mindset. The hardest yrs are when none of your kids are old enough to do much completely by themselves. I think when your oldest is around age 7 is when it gets easier. Just haivng one of your kids not totally dependent on you is a relief, and also a big help when you need a second set of hands.

MrsDash

Fri, Feb 24 2012, 11:33 am

small bean wrote:

Okay, I'm in a similar situation. My kids are 5,3.5, 2 and 10m.

What I do is, I try to keep to a certain schedule every day. This way, my kids know what to expect.

Their in school until 2 (and I work until then)
Everyone comes home (they shmooze on the way home about their day), and they have to entertain them self until 3.30 (I eat lunch and chill out)

At 3.30 we have activity, which monday's is always a game, tuesday craft, wednesday either game or we go somewhere, thursday is baking. We do activity and then everyone does what ever they want until supper, somewhere around 5.30. Some of my kids like to help with supper, so I give out jobs.

We eat supper, I sit by the table with them and ask them what was their best part of the day, who they played with etc....

Then we pick one room, that we clean up together.

everyone chills again until I'm ready for bedtime. which is around 7.

I find scheduling like this makes them and me happy...

Love this idea! And it really works wonders. My dd isn't in school yet, which makes things kind of difficult. Setting up a daily schedule has really helped prevent chaos.

At this time, I have one child, but I come from what I would call a "large" family of 7 kids. The last few of us were definitely a handful. Even till today, I can't understand how my mother did it.

eschaya

Fri, Feb 24 2012, 11:53 am

I agree with MamaBear that the entire game changes once you have older kids. When my 3 dc were all little, we did the park/activity/project/visit thing, and although I can't say everyday was smooth, it was so much easier. Basically every day that was pleasant we were outside hanging out with friends - and I had a much better social life too! Now that my 2 older ones are in school, the time we have at home is so much more stressful. They get home at 4:30 and they want to relax, but we have homework to do, occasional speech therapy for ds, karate some days for ds, baths and dinner to accomplish in 2 hours. And while dd does all her written homework herself, she is required to review her chumash and practice her kriyah to a parent (or other adult of which there are none in my house). Meanwhile youngest ds is kvetching b/c he wants me to read him a book, middle ds is crying b/c he is "soooooo" hungry as I'm trying to make dinner and listen to dd's kriyah at the same time. And on days that I have to leave for work at 5:40... don't ask.

The few things I've found to be helpful (can't say I listen to my own advice all the time) is to have dinner ready and the table set when the 2 older kids come home. Everyone is much more pleasant when their stomachs are full. I used to try to give them snacks and then hold them out till 6:30 when dh comes home, but I've had to give up on family dinners b/c I've noticed that it just isn't helpful in the long run. Also, I try to do an activity (or even just read a book) to youngest ds right before his siblings come home so he doesn't feel too neglected when I focus on them for the next little while. And since all my kids love baths, I use it almost as an activity. Sometimes I'll make a bubble bath for my boys, plop them in and let them play and get clean for literally a half hour while I sit in the hallway with dd and listen to her homework, then let her read and relax while I do light cleanup in the rooms adjacent to the bath.
Things are still crazy (I hate homework that is incumbent upon parents!!!! Don't I have enough to do!) but when I follow my own advice someimtes things run smoother).

JollyMommy

Fri, Feb 24 2012, 4:49 pm

Don't have a big family yet, but I have a 5, 2.5, 2 months. So I can speak for the 5 and under crowd only.

I find preparing stuff in advance the most important thing. Honestly, when I take a shower at night I think about what will be for dinner, what will be snack and what they'll do after school.

Here's our detailed life as of now:

As soon as they come home- at 3 PM they sit at the table and have snack with me- usually there are 2 offerings, one is healthy and one is junky (or junkier). For example: strawberries and bissili, or bananas and cookies. What's interesting about them is they like fruit equally with junk so they eat both things.

Then we do something- I used to take them somewhere after school almost every day, but with a brand new baby it's too complicated for me. By do something I mean I take out a tupperware:

In their closet their toys are organized by tupperware which closes and is stacked. They need me to take it out for them. I like this system a lot (it's been in place for over a year, so it does work) because I only take out 1-2 boxes at a time, I can rotate toys, I will not take out more stuff until the others are cleaned up.

The tupperwares we currently have are:
Legos, Clicks, Stuffed Animals, Thomas trains, Thomas tracks, puppets, wooden blocks, Toy Story figures, plastic animals, cars, large vehicles like airplanes, Little People.

I also keep 2 in the garage that I rotate every few months and it feels like a new toy.

I find I have to do a big sort every month because over time the 2 we take out gets jumbled or a few pieces get lost and later put somewhere else.

Ok, so lets say I take out a thomas trains and tracks. They play with that for about an hour while I sit there with the baby or if they are playing nicely do whatever I need to. I listen in for fighting, if it's starting like name calling I come in and participate because things can turn from great to a disaster in a minute.

After an hour we put everything away. Then I let them play computer or watch a dvd or run around outside while I get their plates ready. I use plates with dividers and have 3-4 options for dinner- like chicken, rice, broccoli, soup. I load the plate with little pieces cut up and drinks poured. I check their lunches and notes that come home during this time as well, usually change the baby or whatever too.

It's 5 PM now. They eat dinner. Sometimes one or the other is not that hungry. But I have them eat 14 bites (just a random number I picked) I don't care of what as long as it's on the plate. If they have only 10 bites of rice and 2 chicken and 2 broccoli, fine. I make them dump off extra food and garbage in the trash. It's 5:15. Big one does homework with me, little one roams the house, hopefully baby sleeps.

If every one does what they should we have a prize bag at the end of the day.

Free time until 6 PM, lots of time I take out crayons and paper, or print coloring for them. I buy stickers on a regular basis and that keeps them busy for a long time. Or they go outside with bubbles, or they dig holes in our yard and plant stuff that never grows.

6 PM if tatty is home he bathes them, if not I get them into PJs. 6:30 ready for bed, it takes until 7 PM for them to be in bed because of stories, songs, requests.. 7 PM we're done. I'll say 9/10 days things are great, once in a while it's a hot mess.

amother

Fri, Feb 24 2012, 5:16 pm

I think there should be a thread about having older kids mixed in with younger ones and all the new fun that occurs with that: like I remember the time my friend with older kids told me, "guess what, the older they get the later they go to bed! Eventually, your only total alone time with dh is after 9 or 10 pm. And by then the majprity of your kids don't nap anymore so down time for yourself is nilch"

It seriously never occured to me. What a treat it was when I had just younger kids, all in bed by 8pm. All napped on shabbos and the youngest took a 2 hr nap while the older ones were in prek and school during the week. I didn't appreciate it at all!

No more naps and early bedtimes, all the homework and activities, different pickup times from school etc older kids are just whole diff. story...especially when mixed in with having a newborn

amother

Sat, Feb 25 2012, 11:36 am

amother wrote:

Ummm.....your 16 year olds are in bed by 9 or 10 pm? Even in the summer? Even on weekends?
So count yourself lucky. My teens are often go to bed 11 or 12 pm.

Ruchel

Sat, Feb 25 2012, 2:48 pm

amother wrote:

Ummm.....your 16 year olds are in bed by 9 or 10 pm? Even in the summer? Even on weekends?
So count yourself lucky. My teens are often go to bed 11 or 12 pm.

If they don't have a room time (many of my friends did), then you go to your room and teach them to not disturb.

In my velt extracurriculars aren't so common, especially in kids too young to go themselves, and if the kids finish on different hours in the same school they either come home alone or wait for the last one to go out to be picked by the parent or carpool.

imaima

Sat, Feb 25 2012, 3:39 pm

Ruchel wrote:

amother wrote:

Ummm.....your 16 year olds are in bed by 9 or 10 pm? Even in the summer? Even on weekends?
So count yourself lucky. My teens are often go to bed 11 or 12 pm.

In Paris, they walk home alone? Starting at what age?

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:17 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I don't think I went to a school of Einstein kids, and we were not babied like that. Our responsibility to do our homework, and our responsibility to tell the teacher if we don't understand. A tutor? Not heard of before important exams like at the end of middle school and of high school.
I have clear memories as a 6 yr old in first grade of doing MY homework. My parents already did theirs in their times.

Ruchel, do you really feel that if a child needs help with homework or with studying for an exam, the parents dont have any responsibility to help their children? That is not called being babied, at all.
As for tutors, many children have tutors. Teachers are meant to tach a certain subject to a certain degree. If a child needs help more than the teacher can provide, that is what a tutor is there for. Again, that is not being babied.
I dont think I would have passed elementary school if my parents would not have helped me and if I would not have had the tutor that I had. I really do not understand why parents helping their children is babying the children or why it is not something that a parent should do if they can.

Ruchel

Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:30 pm

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

If the teacher gives homework on subjects he didn't cover, it is a problem and for the school to solve. Does he expect the parents to do it? It seems he does, if it is a given the parents will help or there will be a tutor.
If the topic has been covered and isn't understood, the child needs to speak up to the teacher. It's the teacher's job.

My friends thought I was lucky that if I had a poetry to learn I could recite it to my parents. I have never heard of a tutor in primary school in my world. It doesn't seem we have a bigger failure % than in America. Maybe teachers just rely less on parents and parents' money.

shabbatiscoming

Sat, Feb 25 2012, 4:35 pm

Ruchel wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Tutors are a big thing. And in many (good) schools, there is something called resource room, where if a student needs that extra help, has a learning difficulty, they are taken out for certain classes and are helped with other classes.
I did not mean that the parent is helping with topics not covered in class yet. Just if the child needs help with studying what the teacher did already teach. And I dont even mean the child does not understand it per say, just that they may need help with the homework or studying for a test, to be tested on the material, to be sure that they know it cold.
And what in the world does reciting poetry to one's parents have anything to do with anything? I could recite things to my parents as well. What is the relevance to the topic here?