What are AT-Risk Factors

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Mevater

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 5:10 pm

momtomor wrote:

amother wrote:

mental illness

learning disabilities

How dare you say that these are causes for going off the derech??

Whatever the women in this forum are suggesting may or may not be a cause, but your reasons definitely ARE NOT the cause.
You words sound like they are coming from one of those radical, crazy frum minds.
Come on!!

If some mentally ill and learning disabled do go off the Derech, I'll venture to say it was not bec. they were ill or learning disabled, it was more likely bec. they weren't treated well by the big frum organizations, and made to feel worthless by the sane and unlearning disabled who were their caregivers.

TammyTammy

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 5:17 pm

momtomor wrote:

amother wrote:

mental illness

learning disabilities

Sometimes they can be indirect causes.

I know someone who had some learning disabilities when he was younger. Unfortunately, his yeshivos either couldn't or wouldn't deal with him in a way that would help him grow. He was simply labeled as a "non-learner" and not given the attention he needed to grow.

He's off the derech today.

B"H, this situation is slowly changing as more and more yeshivos (and public schools too) are learning to recognize ADD/ADHD and other learning disabilities and develop programs that can accommodate these students.

Tammy

Maya

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 6:35 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

Another big reason why young adults go off the derech is because they were always picked on in school, and could never do the right thing, no matter how hard they tried.

I am speaking from personal experience. I was one of those that was "damned if I did, damned if I didn't."

I feel like I wrote these words this is so true sadly Crying

Unfortunately, there are so many who can say that it is true for them, too.

chocolate moose

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 6:55 pm

TammyTammy wrote:

In her book, Faranak Mangolese points out that people go off the derech for all sorts of reasons. If you're interested in this subject, read the book. Tammy

haven't been able to get it from the library; who publishes it?

TammyTammy

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 7:00 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

TammyTammy wrote:

In her book, Faranak Mangolese points out that people go off the derech for all sorts of reasons. If you're interested in this subject, read the book. Tammy

haven't been able to get it from the library; who publishes it?

Devora Publishers.

Tammy

amother

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 7:13 pm

Poor relationships with parents.

Mevater

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 7:30 pm

amother wrote:

Poor relationships with parents.

What comes first- the chicken or the egg?

Mitzvahmom

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 7:33 pm

lol kind of funny one of the reasons I became frum, was for the more stability structure...

My family was so unstructured.. secular...blah

amother

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 10:08 pm

mental Illness, learning disabilities, and bad relationships with parents are not the reason people go off the derech.

I have none of those issues. Yet I dabbled in the Teen at risk scene. I had many friends and acquaintances go totally OTD. And most of them had none of the above issues.

The reason Most teens get turned off is simple. Judaism is presented as a long list of don'ts.

Don't wear a denim skirt, Its not tzniut because a [gentile] created the material.
Don't wear your hear down because its not tznniut.
Don't listen to music (even Jewish music, because for some reason or another the rabbi's decided that So and so is not kosher enough)
don't use the internet.
You can't turn a radio on even to the news.
Clothes from this store are not tzniut.

Then there is the total disconnect between teachers and students.

Ask a question they don't like, then you are an apikores (I had two of my best friends called this in class in front of all the students)

Why can't I touch a boy?
because god said no
but why did he say no?
He did now stop asking.

instead of giving a real reason such as going into a bit about niddah.

I have seen people questioning things, not because they were making fun, but because they were in a place where they did not have faith and NEEDED an answer. And they were shut out and called names, when they should have had SOMEONE explain it to them.

Children go off the derech, because they are not taught to love torah and hashem. All they are taught is do it or go is going to punish you.

Also there is the forced learning on young children cramming stuff into thier heads at younger and younger ages. Expecting them to do a perek 0f chumash every day. Demanding fluency in rashi by the end of the first grade. Mishna and gemara before they master chumash.

Demanding that every boy grow up to sit and learn for the rest of his life.

Many boys are burnt out BEFORE they even reach Bar Mitzvah.

Most yeshivahs let children who are not in the top 10% fall to the wayside. they are declared lost cases without anyone trying to help them out. Boys who are not cut out for learning are treated like wasted space.

The yeshiva system is VERY broken. It's a wonder that more kids are not OTD.

Ruchel

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 10:11 pm

amother wrote:

what about the OTD from a modern community?

southernbubby

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 10:19 pm

Direct live from a 20yr old on the derech male whose friends have left the derech "There is a lot of temptation out there."

Ruchel

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 10:50 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Direct live from a 20yr old on the derech male whose friends have left the derech "There is a lot of temptation out there."

that's an excuse to me... if you love your life and understand your laws, you don't drop everything for a treif restaurant, a girl or a movie in shabbes... before you feel comfortable enough with sinning, you must first lose faith. This doesn't happen because X is cool or tempting.

amother

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 10:53 pm

Denim skirts were created by a jew . (Levi strauss).

Ruchel

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 10:55 pm

amother wrote:

Denim skirts were created by a jew . (Levi strauss).

good luck to whoever only buys clothes or food by a Jew.... the concept is ridiculous, especially clothes!

Mimisinger

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 11:22 pm

You don't have to stop believing in g-d to go otd. You can just want to do the things that are forbidden. It's not necessarily an either-or thing.

Tefila

Mon, Aug 13 2007, 11:50 pm

In the past jews were forced to live in ghettos and weren't allowed to mingle and have the freedom we know today so the assimiliation was way less.

So I tend to agree with what southern bubby said about that young man of 20's point.

I do think as parents we have a way bigger job then the ones of yesteryear. We have to keep up with modern technology and make Judaism come alive most of all portray yiddishkiet as wonderful! Tell storys, teach middos, instill yiras shomayim and though these may seem lofty ideas they could very well be implemented.

We parents and Teachers cannot teach how our parents and grandparents did. B/c we are not living then in those times without that technology, we are living in the now and Torah is called a living Torah for a reason.

If that means the use of internet , telephones, cell phones then so be it we have to conform bringing kedusha to areas that could be otherwise.................

amother

Tue, Aug 14 2007, 5:12 am

[quote="amother"]Poor relationships with parents.[/quote]

match

Tue, Aug 14 2007, 7:13 am

well said Tefila Exclamation

southernbubby

Tue, Aug 14 2007, 11:52 am

The 20 year old also said that everything possible should be done to keep boys from leaving yeshiva because once they are outside of the protective influences of yeshiva, they don't have much to counteract their temptations.

HindaRochel

Tue, Aug 14 2007, 11:56 am

southernbubby wrote:

Well, then what good is all that learning doing? I thought learning Torah was suppose to help a person become a better Jew. Not an isolated human being.

Page 5 of 6

Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next