Child learns differently

amother

Tue, Dec 05 2006, 11:04 am

I hope someone out there has some advice. my children currently attend a very small community jewish day school. there are only a few kids in the whole school. one of my kids(5 years old) has some sort of leanirng problem but n oone can diagnose it. basically she has a very short attention span and goes of and does her own thing oafter 2 min of a book. or often seems very spaced out while being instructed to do things. sometimes give off the wall answers to questiosna dn is strongly influenced by what others answer if the question is posed in a group setting. things is she is very smart. excels is things she loves like spelling, math and if very social and likeable. and she can learn in certain ways like when she is doing something enjoyabel with no pressure I can teach her parsha or tell her story and she can get the right answers afterwards.
my QUESTION: even in this small school where sh does get one on one time and lots of individualized instruction she seems to doing ok but I want to make sure I make EVERY effort to help her be the best she can and let her really shine at what she is good at. should I look into other emthod of eduction like WALDORF or MONTESSOURI? I'm not asking from a haskafic standpoint, we already are not getting what we need jewishly from this other school so...
what would you advise/ id there any sort of thereapy? she already gets occupational thrapy. is ther any sort of leanring specialist that has different methods of teaching?
THANKS!!!

Imaonwheels

Wed, Dec 06 2006, 4:35 am

Please, people, do not just throw things out. These symptoms are not so serious and are very general. I have a LD child with very similar symptoms and he has a hearing perception prob. Feingold here is overkill and just treating symptoms. If a prob serious I suggest a educ eval, not psych.

What was the indication that was the basis for the decision to put her in occupational therapy?

There is a type of teaching in Israel that is callled horaah metakenet. A teacher works one on one with the student giving them a balance of working on their weakness with sharpening their strong points. The child is helped to understand that there is no embarassment and we all have weaknesses. He is not dumb. In addition the teacher is trained to spot bad learning habits that the child has developed in the process of trying to compensate for their weak areas. One of these methods is guessing instead of sounding out words.

I would not suggest a more open school as children tend to choose tasks in areas they are already strong and comfortable in and avoid working on areas of difficulty. A teacher must have the ability to direct the child into both.A school is required to impart certain knowledge, but its task as an aid to preparing the student for life is more important. A few dedicated teachers may become actors, artists singers and jugglers trying to meet each child's unique learning style, but few bosses will.

Your child may be the type of child who is "not into books", She may lack one or more of the basic skills needed in reading, her reading materials may not be appropriate in terms of age, difficulty or interest. Do you enjoy reading, does she see you read? Or is reading something you want her to do? In an educationally aware world the tv, video and electronic games would not be introduced to a child who is not a proficient reader. I usually do not recommend introducing the computer until somewhere between 4th - 6th grade in school and later for cheder children. I also object to schools that make assignments in subjects other than comp literacy that require the use of a computer or internet.

The spacing out when listening to explanations can be a prob with processing audio information. Does she have difficulty with complex sentences or request. If you say to her, "Look in your drawer and if it is not there look in the laundry pile", will she get both commands? There is a tiny booklet that costs 3 shekel here that all govt program 1st grades require and I always considered it a waste as the children generally rush ahead and complete it in one day. This was until my LD child came along and took a month to complete it correctly and he hated every minute of it. It tests the ability to read and follow simple instructions. It does not test other knowledge or skills.

Do you notice difficulty in short and long term memory?

The off the wall answers may be a hearing prob, an information processing difficulty, avoiding unpleasantness or her sense of humor. There is no way to know with out input from her teacher, a hearing test and pos the educ eval.

Following the herd is an extremely normal trait at every age. It once was necessary for survival. Today it is nercessary for socialization, which is necessary for emotional health. It is a trait that is very good if tempered with truth, principles and derech eretz. It takes knowledge and maturity to think independently and these qualities are generally in short supply at age 5. This is definitely age apprpriate behaviour.

Last edited by Imaonwheels on Fri, Dec 08 2006, 1:53 am; edited 1 time in total

HealthCoach

Wed, Dec 06 2006, 10:10 am

Imaonwheels, each person is entitled to the information that Feingold exists and can come to their own conclusions. For some people it's overkill, and for some people it makes the situation much better. Feingold does NOT treat symptoms but removes the CAUSE of the problem, and then there are no symptoms. I have a child on Feingold where some might call it overkill, I'm thrilled with what it's done for him, and I can tell you that my other children are concentrating and behaving even better than before, even though they were fine before. There is a lot of research that artificial coloring and flavoring causes learning/behavior/attention problems and has a negative impact on almost everyone. Some public schools are banning coloring etc. because of the effect it has on students. Each person can make their own decision. For me I don't know why someone would want to cope with even the slightest LD if it can be completely cured through food elimination. Why give a child therapy if they can eat differently and not need it.

Imaonwheels

Wed, Dec 06 2006, 2:18 pm

liveandlearn wrote:

First do an eval. Why radically alter your child's diet (and make him different from his classmates) if it is a prob with hearing, perception, inefficient learning techniques and one of the many other causes for these very general symptoms that have nothing to do with the probs feingold is meant to treat? You found the answer for your child's prob. Great but it is not the solution for every child's prob. Most of the symptoms mentioned are not that serious as presented.

HealthCoach

Wed, Dec 06 2006, 3:07 pm

Imaonwheels, FG is a solution to attention problems, which is exactly what amother is describing. I agree, the issue does not seem severe at all, and it's up to amother to decide if she wants to try it. If amother is looking for a solution, she is entitled to have that information.

I'm not sure if you are aware of what FG is for. While FG cannot help with a hearing problem, Feingold does cure people of perception and learning problems without doing any exta work with the child. After the offending foods are removed, the child percieves things and learns just like the next child. While some mothers may decide that diet changes are very drastic, another may decide that therapy is more drastic (not that I'm saying this child needs therapy). A child knowing he/she cannot eat certain foods is much better for the self esteem of a child than therapy or any other form of special needs.

Imaonwheels

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 5:22 am

I almost never recommend therapy (if you are speaking of a psychological method of intervention), for anyone. Worjking to rewrite bad learning habits with a teacher one on one is not therapy. FG will not correct improper learning habits the child has created to deal with a prob. FG does not cure perception probs. Cure means I did the treatment and now the treatment is no longer necessary because the prob is cured. A treatment that is ongoing has not cured anything yet.

I have nothing against fg and if the eval shows a prob that fg can help w/thats between her, her dh, child and her ped. I just am against any type of intervention or treatment before knowing what it is you are treating. Therapy is not part of this discussion as far as I know.

HealthCoach

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 12:05 pm

Imaonwheels, I would always recommend working one on one with a child first. This amother is already doing that. She was looking for something more.

I understand your point of view about the food. If someone goes on FG, they have to avoid certain foods for a long time. For some people that is not the end of the world. Many FG children CHOOSE to watch what they eat as adults also.

I did not post in this thread with the intention of debating whether FG should be the solution for this child, or the solution for any child for that matter. I was merely introducing the idea. I feel it's my moral obligation. If you want to know my personal opinion, if the mother is desperate enough to have her child evaluated, she should consider FG. Otherwise she should work with her child herself and see what happens. If she is considering switching her child's school she should try FG. Otherwise she should work with her child herself and see what happens. I wasn't giving advice on what to do though, I was suggesting that she research it herself. I know it's not for everyone, but I am very knowledgeable about who it can help should they choose to try it. This is not based on my own experiences but based on the experiences of all FG members that I read about on the FG message board. I do not recommend FG to everyone, in fact I've discouraged some people from going on it because I felt for them it was unnecessary. I have read up a lot on topics such as this one, not relating to my own situation, and my opinion is a very educated one.

Many children on FG were not evaluated before they tried it, including my child, and once they are on FG there is nothing left to evaluate. There is the added benefit of no stigma of a diagnosis, which takes up chapters in books. There is no magic to an evaluation, and short of a hearing test, the only thing the evaluator discovers is symptoms and not cause. You don't need an evaluation to know what symptoms your child has, and they can be compared with the symptom list on FG website. An evaluator would NEVER recommend FG, and neither would a psychiatrist or psychologist. I like to be dan lekaf zechus so I will say that they don't know about it or how well it works. Someone else might say it's a conflict of interest. Pediatricians will recommend it if they know that it works, but the only way that happens is if they have had a patient on it.

FG is for those out-of-the-box thinkers like me.

Imaonwheels

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 1:00 pm

What you say is absolutely true of psych evals, not pedagogical evals.

There is no stigma to sitting and learning one on one with a teacher. There is no diagnosing per se. One one was mentioned by the OP in 2 settings - her own work w/her child and occupational therapy. The latter I have no idea why she was referred and I think it is often a wastebasket refferral when the authorities don't know what to do. I have seen children referred who do not handle age appropriate tasks simply because the parents are clueless about child development and do everything for the child.

My 3rd grade teacher taught me to do 2 or 3 things my parents and other teachers should have noticed I wasn't doing and taught me but he didn't do therapy on me, occupational or otherwise. Remember if the prob is physical or bad learning habits then valuable time is wasted while we try everything else.

HealthCoach

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 1:41 pm

Imaonwheels, I did not mean for the statement to be offensive to anyone. All I really meant is that it falls more into the category of alternative medicine than something a professional would recommend. I did not mean to imply anything else. While FG has quite a following (mostly non-jewish), it is not usually endorsed by health or education professionals unless they have had experience with it in their personal lives. It is not well known at all, and most people that find it would have loved to find out about it much earlier, me included. Even if you google FG, it is not straightforward to find. As you may know FG is a non-profit organization and they do not advertise. For me, it was out of the box thinking because I tried something that noone had recommended on my own. For anyone else it would have to be out of the box thinking because they would have to try something their health professional does not feel will work. I apologize if you think I was trying to say anything more than that.

amother

Thu, Dec 07 2006, 11:57 pm

OP here--been away a few days, sorry to see I caused a stir. As far as the Feingold I would like to see the list of foods not allowed on it. I couldnt find it on their website. My father is allergic to some colorings and dyes in food so it may be a place to start.
As far as the OT...I forgot to mention she had a lot of Fine Motor skill delay (and still does) and I do know age appropriate milestones as she is my 5th k''ah!! the therapy has helped her hold her pen properly, have more in hand motor coordination. and vestibular stability. She is more confident and sturdy when roughousing with her brothers!!

Anyway I got the book of Mel Levines from the library and am reading it.
Will keep you updated. thanks for everything:)

HealthCoach

Fri, Dec 08 2006, 12:56 pm

Feingold eliminates

Synthetic (Artificial) Colors
Synthetic (Artificial) Flavors
BHA(Butylated Hydroxyanisole)
BHT(Butylated Hydroxytoluene)
TBHQ(Tertiary Butylhydroquinone)
Aspartame
Natural Salicylates

There is no list of foods that are not allowed, but rather an extensive list of foods by brand that are allowed. Feingold contacts companies based on member's requests and finds out if the foods are ok, and then they print a shopping guide based on location. This shopping guide is part of the membership package. There is hardly anything that you cannot find an acceptable brand of, and there is hardly anything that you cannot cook. You would have to do a lot of cooking if your child goes on FG. For children that are less sensitive it may be enough to check ingredients, and for others (such as my child) an ingredient list is not enough. Even if a child improves by checking ingredients, that does not mean they would not see greater improvement if they followed FG to the letter. Some people may not see any improvement just by checking ingredients. All these decisions are up to you. Feel free to pm me if you have more questions.