Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note
Do you invite people who drive on Shabbos?
Previous  1  2  3



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Marion




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 02 2007, 6:36 am
ceo wrote:
shabbatiscoming wrote:
many ppl that came to our home that did not even know that driving on shabbat was assur and you are not supposed to tell them, that I know for a fact.


Do you have a source for that? That's interesting, because as far as I understood, when you invite a non-frum person to your house for shabbos, the ultimate goal is to teach them about shabbos, and that probably includes some rudimentary introduction to the laws of shabbos. Now obviously, a shiur on the 39 melachos is probably not appropriate, but I would think some basic introduction to the halchos, without imposing, just teaching, would be welcome- especially if the guest is interested in learning more about judaism.


AFAIK, it would fall under the category of "better to do something by accident than on purpose". There's a much fancier way of saying it in the Hebrew, but it means that if someone's going to do an aveira (drive to you on Shabbat) because they don't know it's assur (as was posted in a specific case here), then it's better to just offer accomodations but not tell them it's assur. Because if they find out it's assur and they continue to do it, then it's on purpose. But if they don't know any better then it's less of a problem.

On a different note, I know that my parents will invite some people who drive, but not others. And for yom tov, not Shabbat. Their pre-requisite seems to be that it has to be family, and someone who otherwise would either not mark the occasion or would be by themselves (like for RH or seder).
Back to top

ceo




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 02 2007, 11:48 am
Marion wrote:
AFAIK, it would fall under the category of "better to do something by accident than on purpose". There's a much fancier way of saying it in the Hebrew, but it means that if someone's going to do an aveira (drive to you on Shabbat) because they don't know it's assur (as was posted in a specific case here), then it's better to just offer accomodations but not tell them it's assur. Because if they find out it's assur and they continue to do it, then it's on purpose. But if they don't know any better then it's less of a problem.


I am not sure about tyour reasoning- do you have a source?


Marion wrote:
On a different note, I know that my parents will invite some people who drive, but not others. And for yom tov, not Shabbat. Their pre-requisite seems to be that it has to be family, and someone who otherwise would either not mark the occasion or would be by themselves (like for RH or seder).


interesting. thanks for sharing. they spoke to someone in e"y or chu"l about how to go about it?

DL, it's great to hear that you became frum through a shabbos meal, but if there is a halacha about something, we have to follow it. (I am assuming that the people who invited you asked their own shaylos). That;s what we are discussing here. It doesn't matter what "the proof in the pudding is." What poskim say matters.
Back to top

mumoo




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 02 2007, 1:40 pm
ceo wrote:
Marion wrote:
AFAIK, it would fall under the category of "better to do something by accident than on purpose". There's a much fancier way of saying it in the Hebrew, but it means that if someone's going to do an aveira (drive to you on Shabbat) because they don't know it's assur (as was posted in a specific case here), then it's better to just offer accomodations but not tell them it's assur. Because if they find out it's assur and they continue to do it, then it's on purpose. But if they don't know any better then it's less of a problem.


I am not sure about tyour reasoning- do you have a source?


One can be mechalel Shabbos because he doesn't know any better; someone who knows he's trangressing and does it anyway is chayiv misa.
Back to top

chavamom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 02 2007, 1:46 pm
I think the 'beshogeg' principal (the 'don't tell, better they do it by accident') only applies to derabbanon, not d'oraisa.
Back to top

shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 02 2007, 3:50 pm
chavamom wrote:
I think the 'beshogeg' principal (the 'don't tell, better they do it by accident') only applies to derabbanon, not d'oraisa.


I am not even sure that it applies to all miderobons. It applies to specific things mentioned in halacha.

DL wrote:

I would never be a frum married mom with 3 boys if I was told I could not go to a dinner if I drove! The proof is in the pudding I think. Very Happy


How do you know? If people keep halacha, no-one loses out. (Maybe they asked a shaila and were told they could invite you.)

We have a principle in Judaism that the end does not justify the means. Tamar was prepared to allow herself to be thrown into a fiery furnace rather than embarass Yehuda. She knew by nevua that she was pregnant with the ancestor of the Mashiach, yet saving him did not justify going against halacha. It is not up to us to decide what will bring greater benefit to Am Yisrael. Our task is to follow the halacha and leave the rest up to Hashem.[/quote]
Back to top

ceo




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jan 02 2007, 4:48 pm
shalhevet wrote:
It is not up to us to decide what will bring greater benefit to Am Yisrael. Our task is to follow the halacha and leave the rest up to Hashem


Thumbs Up
Back to top

shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 03 2007, 8:30 am
DL wrote:
I would never be a frum married mom with 3 boys if I was told I could not go to a dinner if I drove! The proof is in the pudding I think. Very Happy


SmileSmileSmile BH for those wonderful shabbat dinners. I know a few ppl like that. I know one woman that told my mother that if she would have been told what to do at an earlier date, she would never have become frum. she would have felt like she was being scrutinized and she would just have not returned for shabbat again. instead, she did what she did till she was ready to go further and now is a frum woman living in a frum community.
Back to top

mumoo




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jan 03 2007, 10:01 am
A woman I know who is the queen of kiruv told me she never comments on anything negative, only what is positive. She might compliment a blouse but not mention its opened too low.

But she wouldn't invite someone for Shabbos, knowing they will drive or serve someone bread knowing they do not know to wash.

She has a great track record of influencing women and families anyway.
Back to top

DL




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 04 2007, 10:07 pm
I am sorry I ever commented. Sad
Back to top

greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 04 2007, 10:40 pm
DL wrote:
I am sorry I ever commented. Sad


DL please don't be sorry - I don't think that people understand where you are coming from.

People need to feel the heimishe and unconditional acceptance. This way they are able to see shabbos and enjoy shabbos and parttake in shabbos. And by the way - I invite people who aren't frum even if they do whatever. The only request I ever would ask is not to do machalel shabbos things in my home - like don't answer cell phone. I certainly don't run after them to the bathroom and tell them not to rip the toilet paper.
Back to top

ceo




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 04 2007, 10:45 pm
DL, You don't have to be sorry. No one here dislikes you, ch"v. but look: Judaism is not about doing what you think is a good idea. It's about following the halacha. Now, I am assuming that the people who invited you over asked their own shailos.

Shabbat is coming: The question is: can you invite someone over if you know that they will drive home from your house. No one is saying that you go over to a person and tell them: "you can't drive and if you do, you're going to burn in gehenom," ch"v. No one is talking about going up to people and pointing out all the things that they're doing wrong. Do you think I don't love other jews because I can't invite them over if they'll drive home: CHAS V'SHALOM!!! Just like you probably have non-frum relatives that you love and accept, but that doesn't mean you can eat off of their plates. I can't change the psak halacha because I love that Jew and want to show unconditional acceptance.

Look, this past pesach, we had a non-frum college kid come for lail seder. she showed up in jeans and a v-neck sweater. do you think I told her to go home and change? Of course not. I was nothing but sweet and hospitable Very Happy But the fact that she was driving home on yontif did present a shaila in halacha in terms of whether or not we could invite her. Halacha is not just about making people feel good.


And no, I also don't run after people and tell them not to rip the toilet paper LOL LOL
Back to top

DL




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 04 2007, 11:17 pm
Let me rephrase that....I am sorry I bothered. That was a long time ago when I did not know anything. Lose the tude dear. I probably could be your mother or grandmother.
Back to top

mumoo




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 04 2007, 11:43 pm
DL wrote:
Let me rephrase that....I am sorry I bothered. That was a long time ago when I did not know anything. Lose the tude dear. I probably could be your mother or grandmother.


her mother or grandmother probably wouldn't say lose the 'tude, dear

I thought ceo was being kind. From the wording (and unsmiley) of your post, it sounded like you were insulted.
Back to top

ceo




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 05 2007, 12:45 am
I thought that was very rude. I was trying to be nice.
Back to top
Page 3 of 3 Previous  1  2  3 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Shabbos, Rosh Chodesh, Fast Days, and other Days of Note

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Musical people, please weigh in…am I doomed?
by amother
17 Today at 1:36 pm View last post
What's the latest you would go away for Shabbos if invited
by amother
12 Today at 10:31 am View last post
Did you deliver MM or wait for people to come to you?
by amother
39 Today at 9:43 am View last post
Shabbos pants for elementary boys
by amother
11 Today at 7:30 am View last post
How do people make money?
by amother
11 Today at 12:35 am View last post