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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
chavamom
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 Sun, Jan 07 2007, 9:25 pm
| amother wrote: | | The lawyers I know that make over 200k work like "dogs" and never see their family. I would rather my husband make less and be home for the family more. I think it's important to have a balence. DH has, B"H, a good job that pays well but we both drive used cars and dress modestly. I am happy to make the sacrifice of having 1000+ less car payments a month and giving DH less pressure to earn money and more pressure to help out raising the kids. I don't want a husband that works 18 hour days and then comes homes plops in bed and doesn't see the kids until shabbos when he sleeps half the day. I think it's important to know that quality of living is also important. |
It's true, I know lawyers taht work like that. But it's usually only in the beginning while they are 'paying their dues' so to speak and doesn't last forever. Much like residents can work 100 hour weeks.
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amother
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Sun, Jan 07 2007, 11:58 pm
DH put in his time for his education and works hard to pull in over 200,000 a year. I married him and his over $100,000 in sudent loans. We BH were able to buy a small house (nothing fancy) but you know this NY/NJ market dont make it easy. We have two cars that are nothing fancy (one has over 100,000 miles on it and sometimes makes funny noises) Don't think our kid's schools will ever give us a break on tuition and we all know how expensive that can get..... hmmmm soon with maybe lets say 10 kids in school I might be shelling out half of dh's salary for education expenses  We dont buy expensive clothing or shoes in fact I try to be maybe overly thrifty when shopping for those things. After the huge amount of taxes we pay we shell out our duty to G-d with a hefty Maasar amount plus the extra tzedakah we give. I am so grateful that we are able to put away a bit of money in savings so maybe one day we can retire comfortably. Overall we live modestly I think. I was reading dh this thread and the thread that started this whole conversation and hes like WOW we make a lot of money and he looks at me with such a quizzical look that I almost laughed. Sometimes things can get pretty tight at the end of the month. How does that happen???We spoke about it a bit trying to figure out where we are extravagant with ourselves, maybe we eat out sometimes, I just upgraded to a cleaning lady twice a week, I almost never get babysitters, we dont spend money on dates. We go on one or two small vacations a year which are only a night or two in a nice touristy town in a motel, farm the kids out to family and bring along our own kosher food. nothing fancy not even a plane ticket its always driving distance.
We dont feel like big machers or anything after all we dont live in a very fancy way, I thank Hashem that I dont have to worry about buying my groceries (although sometimes at the end of the month) I do not spend money on fancy snacks or cerials for the kids. Im thankful to have good medical insurance, but I have not seen a dentist because Im figuring we cant afford that. Im thankful for the roof over my head. Im thankful that I can be a stay at home mother. (Im sure that if I went out to work we could have some fancier things like car, vacation, expensive clothing but being with my kids is more important to us) Im sure that if we lived out of the major metropolitan jewish area we would live quite grandly but weve chosen to live in a place where our spiritual needs can be met and G-d makes sure our physical needs are met and we are so thankful for that.
Its not impossible for someone to make over 150,000 with the right degree and job or a good business head, it probably will take years of studying and working as it did for my dh and me but it happened eventualy. Keep on plugging away at it and have bitachon in Hashem and make sure to be careful with Maasar and to give extra tzedakah on top of that (we did even when we couldnt) and that bring financial brachos into the home. Hashem should provide everyone with what they need!
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amother
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Mon, Jan 08 2007, 9:58 am
| tzipp wrote: | | IOn topic... I was wondering if there is a chesed organization that helps people with financial planning. If there isn't there should be! and I think that couples should be encouraged to take advantage of it before they get married... and yearly after that- so many people could benifit from something like that. |
There is a tomchei shabbos like organization in our community that does give out money/food etc, but also assists with financial planning and money organization, so that the donation/tzedaka can be used inteh most effective means possible. For families receiving assistance from them on a weekly/monthly basis, this is "required"
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tzipp
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Mon, Jan 08 2007, 10:13 am
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Thats great- but how about a program for people who are not recieving tzedaka (yet!). It seems like even people with ok or even good jobs are having trouble figuring out how to make the money work for them and cover their expenses. I think it should be encouraged more on a mainstream level.
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suomynona
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Mon, Jan 08 2007, 10:25 am
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there is an organization like that. Don't remember the name offhand. But the recently started a column in the hamodia.
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DefyGravity
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Mon, Jan 08 2007, 10:30 am
| amother wrote: | | My DH is a lawyer, working for 4 years. This year he will make 200,000 plus bonus ( around 50,000). The starting salary at a big firm in NY is 140,000 these days. Where we live there are many drs. and lawyers, and they are all making around this much. If you go to a bad law school, do poorly and law school, or live outside NY you cannot make that much as a lawyer. IF you work in the NY metro area, go to a good law school, or an ok law school and do really well, then you will make this much. |
Out of curiousity, how many hours does he work? Does he have to work through weekends as well?
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amother
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Mon, Jan 08 2007, 6:30 pm
| DefyGravity wrote: | | amother wrote: | | My DH is a lawyer, working for 4 years. This year he will make 200,000 plus bonus ( around 50,000). The starting salary at a big firm in NY is 140,000 these days. Where we live there are many drs. and lawyers, and they are all making around this much. If you go to a bad law school, do poorly and law school, or live outside NY you cannot make that much as a lawyer. IF you work in the NY metro area, go to a good law school, or an ok law school and do really well, then you will make this much. |
Out of curiousity, how many hours does he work? Does he have to work through weekends as well? |
He does work long hours, but is a very good father too. Family time is just as important as work, and my DH works very, very hard to balance the two. Since lawyer work really late at night (he doesn't usually come home before 10:30, but anywhere from there till 2-3 AM is standard) they usually have the luxury of getting in later (unless he has a meeting or something, which happens a few times a month.) He dresses the kids every morning and eats breakfast with them, this is their time together. The kids know that if they need him or want to talk to them they can call him. They also spend a lot of time together on Shabbos. He usually does some work on Sundays, but he usually only has to go into the office for the day every other month. Most of the time he can work remotely from home and we always make sure to fit some family time in, depending on what is going on/how much work he has.
We have lots of friends who are in this situation, and whle there are some fathers who don't have much to do with their kids, (I think this is sad, but it is largely a personality thing and a matter of priorities) there are also many who are very involved husbands and fathers. My understanding is that there is this kind of breakdown among fathers who don't work that many hours too.
And another thing: Working this kind of job is not only about the money. My DH loves what he does and he's good at it. It's challenging, he gets to use his brain, and he makes a good salary doing it. So far this delicate balance is working for us, but we also have an understanding between each other that if it ever stops working (and that day may come soon) he will do something else. G-d willing the experience he has already amassed will allow him to get a less stressful job that also pays well and that he enjoys.
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amother
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Mon, Jan 15 2007, 8:59 pm
This thread depresses me. I have a masters degree and a professional license, and I only make $27 an hour. Guess I went into the wrong profession. 
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Shimmysmom
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Tue, Jan 16 2007, 8:41 am
| amother wrote: | | This thread depresses me. I have a masters degree and a professional license, and I only make $27 an hour. Guess I went into the wrong profession. |
its not necissarily the wrong profession if you enjoy what you do- that's also worth something, it's not all about the money!
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JRKmommy
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Mon, Feb 12 2007, 6:13 pm
Lawyers can make big money, but not all do.
Working on legal aid/public defender/child protection pays significantly less.
Working on your own can be far more flexible for family life and Jewish holidays - but then there is no set salary and income can really vary.
Top firms do pay top dollar - but they also expect a tremendous amount of work.
A good friend of ours is a securities lawyer, and he always gets home late at night, never has time to work out, and his family missed him.
I work very flexible hours and love my job - but I've never made $100K/yr. When I first started out, I struggled to clear $20K. When I worked for a child protection agency, the starting salary was around $50K Canadian (around $35K US at the time), and the work was extremely demanding. This was 5 years ago. That said, if you work hard, have a smart business plan and need a flexible job, you can make a much better living than in other small businesses.
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Chani
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Mon, Feb 12 2007, 6:20 pm
Yep, it always amazes me how people think lawyers make so much money...
There were a lot of years when my DH was doing insurance defense work and his billable hours expectation was 2100 a year (trying doing that with shabbos/yom tov/ and honest billing) and he was making less than $100k. This is billable hours, not actual hours which are far more than billable.
B'H, I got very lucky with a corporate in house job, but it is definitely the exception, not the norm. And even this job has its moments when it is very demanding, including some travel which isn't the easiest with the children.
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chavamom
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Mon, Feb 12 2007, 9:44 pm
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:rolleyes: Since it was me that gave lawyer AS AN EXAMPLE - let me clarify. I certainly know that not all lawyers in all jobs make top dollar (and the same can be said for doctors and dentists and others that have larger earning potential. However, you certainly have options out there to make big money.
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Emuna
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Mon, Feb 12 2007, 11:08 pm
JRKsmommy I should have known you're a lawyer - you always seem so fair and balanced  I think with lawyers it has a lot to do with where you graduated from and how driven you are. My friend did very well at UCLA and was offered 90K right out of law school. She makes tons now but still isn't married and would give up her new BMW to find a husband!!!
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Chani
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Tue, Feb 13 2007, 6:29 am
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Where you went certainly matters, but it isn't a guarantee...We went to a top 20 school as well, and both had those kinds of jobs right after graduation...right until the recession hit, both of our firms collapsed, and then we had to find what we could find in the city we wanted to live in (which did limit our options somewhat).
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JRKmommy
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Tue, Feb 13 2007, 10:42 am
I think the law school may matter more in the US than Canada - I went to the best known school, but it wasn't like I could just say "Osgoode" and have all doors magically open! Grades, specific courses, pre-law background, experience and connections all matter.
Chava - yes, I'd agree that the potential for higher earnings is there. I'd also agree that the per hour rate can be good, so that it's possible to make a decent income working part-time/flexible hours.
I just get a bit annoyed when people always assume that dh and I must be making millions, because we're a doctor and lawyer. Everyone made comments when we got married. We had nudnik "investment counsellors" try to badger us about tax shelters, when I was just trying to pay the rent. Even relatives would say "as a doctor and lawyer, you can at least drive a decent car!" At the office, people would assume I was set for life b/c I was marrying a doctor, so I didn't really need to work. In reality, far from being a gold digger, I married a medical student with no income, tuition to pay, and lots of student loans to pay back. Meanwhile, I had just started practicing and the job prospects for lawyers at the time was so bleak that I took a fee-split arrangement that had me working my tush off doing complex family cases for legal aid rates, and then giving half my billings to the landlord. I'm not complaining - we paid our dues and 10 yrs later things are much easier - but didn't appreciate the assumptions.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2007, 9:02 pm
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People seem to be forgeting that there are so many jobs out there that you can make over $200K a year w/o a degree. For example, I know many people in real estate who are pulling in at least half of a million a year and never stepped foot in college. It is all about your outlook, if you think that you can't and never will make so much money, then you never will. And to me 200 is nothing. I don't know how people live on that.
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amother
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Wed, Feb 21 2007, 9:13 pm
| amother wrote: | | And to me 200 is nothing. I don't know how people live on that. |
Would ya kindly pass that nothing of 200K over to me via check, my adress is.............. 
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amother
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Thu, Feb 22 2007, 8:42 am
u dont know how people live on that.
hmmmmmmm.
lady youve gotta be kidding me.
I mean seriously, youve gotta be kidding, right?
that was a purim speil joke, im sure.
least I hope.
what do you have, that is such a necessity, that you couldnt live on 200 grand a year?
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chavamom
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Thu, Feb 22 2007, 12:55 pm
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Maybe she lives in Manhattan?
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