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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Rosh Hashana-Yom Kippur
How To Get IV For YK In Spring Valley, NY Neighborhood
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Happy18




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 2:12 pm
It seems very strange to me that some rebbeim hold that its better to be on an IV than to drink shiurim or not fast all together.
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Cookies n Cream




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 2:16 pm
In Boro Park they are having 4-5 locations where a fasting person that's not felling well can get IVS. It's a pretty common thing.
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Liba




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 2:47 pm
And here I was told to drink and eat shiurim by my frum doctors and my rav so I cam hopefully avoid needing an IV after the fast even though I might feel okay during the fast...
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Inspired




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 3:00 pm
Cookies n Cream wrote:
In Boro Park they are having 4-5 locations where a fasting person that's not felling well can get IVS. It's a pretty common thing.

And that makes even less sense. Drinking water is available everywhere. Someone who is so weak from fasting they need IV should walk a few city blocks rather than sit down and take small sips of sugar water. SRSLY?
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mvp




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 3:19 pm
Cookies n Cream wrote:
In Boro Park they are having 4-5 locations where a fasting person that's not felling well can get IVS. It's a pretty common thing.


to get IV prior to YK makes no sense, but I can maybe imagine why someone that doesn't understand the medical implications of IVs would allow it.

But ON YK to insert IV????
I can think of a few mlachos you'll be over...
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Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 6:00 pm
This is officially the craziest thing that I have ever heard on this site and I've been here a long time. Medically it is absolutely insane. Halachically, it's absolutely insane in MY derech.

I just don't understand this one, people.
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OutATowner




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 6:12 pm
Quote:
Cookies n Cream wrote:
In Boro Park they are having 4-5 locations where a fasting person that's not felling well can get IVS. It's a pretty common thing.

And that makes even less sense. Drinking water is available everywhere. Someone who is so weak from fasting they need IV should walk a few city blocks rather than sit down and take small sips of sugar water. SRSLY?


The last two times I fasted I ended up on an IV in the er. I could not keep anything down. Water doesn't help once you reach a certain point, your stomach can't handle it. I had to wait until after Y"K to go. It was not life threatening, but it would have been if I didn't go to the ER at some point.
This year I was told NOT to fast at all. I don't have a medical condition, except that for some reason I start throwing up when I fast for a few hours. It's a digestive thing, not dehydration (well, after throwing up bile for 6 hours anyone would also dehydrate).
I am not even doing shiurim because it causes the same reaction.
My Rav told me there is no mitzva to end up in the er again.
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ChutzPAh




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 7:57 pm
This is the most bizarre thing I ever read on here.maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that In places like bork park an old lady can just walk in to a place and get hooked up to fluids without the direction of a medical professional? W
IV fluids can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. I can't even imagine that this is legal
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Cookies n Cream




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 8:13 pm
Inspired wrote:
Cookies n Cream wrote:
In Boro Park they are having 4-5 locations where a fasting person that's not felling well can get IVS. It's a pretty common thing.

And that makes even less sense. Drinking water is available everywhere. Someone who is so weak from fasting they need IV should walk a few city blocks rather than sit down and take small sips of sugar water. SRSLY?


No clue. I guess these people assume that they are rather supposed to do IV than drink?
One of the locations is actually an Urgent Care Center. The others are Shuls in different areas...they're all spread out
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Cookies n Cream




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 8:13 pm
ChutzPAh wrote:
This is the most bizarre thing I ever read on here.maybe I'm misunderstanding, but are you saying that In places like bork park an old lady can just walk in to a place and get hooked up to fluids without the direction of a medical professional? W
IV fluids can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. I can't even imagine that this is legal


The locations in BP have trained paramedics taking care of it.
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ally




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Sep 24 2012, 10:53 pm
The whole idea of shiurim is that halachikally, it is not really considered eating/drinking because the amounts are so small. If you cannot even do shiurim, it is an obligation to eat and drink.
Inserting IVs is invasive and it is not without risks. It is also, as others said, self inflicting a wound in your body and drawing blood.
I cannot imagine how someone who is trained in both medicine and halachah would support this. It disturbs me that this trend is growing and will soon be considered mainstream.
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happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 5:32 am
ally wrote:
The whole idea of shiurim is that halachikally, it is not really considered eating/drinking because the amounts are so small. If you cannot even do shiurim, it is an obligation to eat and drink.
Inserting IVs is invasive and it is not without risks. It is also, as others said, self inflicting a wound in your body and drawing blood.
I cannot imagine how someone who is trained in both medicine and halachah would support this. It disturbs me that this trend is growing and will soon be considered mainstream.


Obviously there are rabbanim and doctors that have a different take on all of this. I know many people that were told both by their rav and NON-JEWISH or jewish doctor to be on IV fluid instead of fasting.
if your Rav has a different p'sak you follow your own rabbi.
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bnm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 6:11 am
I had an iv twice, once when pregnant, other time nursing. my ob was the one who referred me, a trained nurse came Erev YK to my house and put in the line, she came back twice the next day to check on me and see if I need anything else. I had fasted the TB before those Yom Kippurs and ended up with contractions once and not making it to the end of the fast when nursing.
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mvp




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 6:41 am
According to Holocho, you are not allowed to bring yourself to the state of needing medical intervention. That is black and white - basic principal of Jewish Law.

I would not go asking anyone if I can eat milk and meat together. I would not go asking anyone if I can put mine or my baby's life in danger. Just like all pregnant woman throughout Jewish history, I ask is at which point, and how much I can eat. I don't ask if I can get medical personall to monitor me in case something bad happens.

It;s not about the level of professionalism of your IV inserter - it's about you putting yourself on IV to begin with.

If G-d put you in a physical state that prevents you from fasting - that's a clear message to you that fasting is not the service He wants from you at this point in your life. Going against his message does not score you brownie points. This is the Jewish way.

Getting contractions means you need to EAT not get IV. That's the holocho.
My rav told me if I get contractions, I need to eat and drink without shiurim. There is no mitzvah in jeopardizing a pregnancy even in the slightest way. It is an avera!

IV on YK is a case of people being too "frum" to follow holocho.
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Cookies n Cream




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 7:57 am
mvp wrote:
According to Holocho, you are not allowed to bring yourself to the state of needing medical intervention. That is black and white - basic principal of Jewish Law.

I would not go asking anyone if I can eat milk and meat together. I would not go asking anyone if I can put mine or my baby's life in danger. Just like all pregnant woman throughout Jewish history, I ask is at which point, and how much I can eat. I don't ask if I can get medical personall to monitor me in case something bad happens.

Well maybe you should ask.

It;s not about the level of professionalism of your IV inserter - it's about you putting yourself on IV to begin with.

If G-d put you in a physical state that prevents you from fasting - that's a clear message to you that fasting is not the service He wants from you at this point in your life. Going against his message does not score you brownie points. This is the Jewish way.

Getting contractions means you need to EAT not get IV. That's the holocho.
My rav told me if I get contractions, I need to eat and drink without shiurim. There is no mitzvah in jeopardizing a pregnancy even in the slightest way. It is an avera!

IV on YK is a case of people being too "frum" to follow holocho.


Are you a Posek? Because there are obviously Poskim that disagree with your train of thought.
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princessleah




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 7:58 am
And it's in the NY Times!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09.....?_r=0
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 8:10 am
My rav also told me to drink tiny amounts during my last pregnancy. Someone told me that rabbamin have been sued in recent years from telling pregnant ladies not to break their fast/get IVs, which have lead to disastrous results. which is why in recent years more and more rabbanim are telling women to drink tiny amounts rather than get an IV or fast (who knows if this is true. Just a rumor.) We know that rabbanim have the whole world on their shoulders, and it makes sense that for a fasting pregnant woman, he is taking 2 lives into consideration. Not for the first time am I thankful that I am not a rav!!!
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ohmygosh




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 8:13 am
Quote:
According to Holocho, you are not allowed to bring yourself to the state of needing medical intervention. That is black and white - basic principal of Jewish Law.

I would not go asking anyone if I can eat milk and meat together. I would not go asking anyone if I can put mine or my baby's life in danger. Just like all pregnant woman throughout Jewish history, I ask is at which point, and how much I can eat. I don't ask if I can get medical personall to monitor me in case something bad happens.

It;s not about the level of professionalism of your IV inserter - it's about you putting yourself on IV to begin with.

If G-d put you in a physical state that prevents you from fasting - that's a clear message to you that fasting is not the service He wants from you at this point in your life. Going against his message does not score you brownie points. This is the Jewish way.

Getting contractions means you need to EAT not get IV. That's the holocho.
My rav told me if I get contractions, I need to eat and drink without shiurim. There is no mitzvah in jeopardizing a pregnancy even in the slightest way. It is an avera!

IV on YK is a case of people being too "frum" to follow holocho.


No, actually. In this case, it is following her Rabbi, who I would assume knows a lot about halacha, and told her to do this.

Don't bash anothers Rabbi without specifically speaking to him about it and maybe asking why his ruling is such. I'm sure there is a lot more to it than simply the surface. Y'K is not a fast taken lightly.

To state that because your Rabbi gave you a specific ruling in your situation means that another's Rabbi who rules differently in her situation is wrong, sounds pretty awful on your part.
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Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 10:34 am
happyone wrote:
ally wrote:
The whole idea of shiurim is that halachikally, it is not really considered eating/drinking because the amounts are so small. If you cannot even do shiurim, it is an obligation to eat and drink.
Inserting IVs is invasive and it is not without risks. It is also, as others said, self inflicting a wound in your body and drawing blood.
I cannot imagine how someone who is trained in both medicine and halachah would support this. It disturbs me that this trend is growing and will soon be considered mainstream.


Obviously there are rabbanim and doctors that have a different take on all of this. I know many people that were told both by their rav and NON-JEWISH or jewish doctor to be on IV fluid instead of fasting.
if your Rav has a different p'sak you follow your own rabbi.

THEN YOU DRINK!

No non-Jewish or REAL Jewish doctor would say to put in an IV rather than drink shiurim. This is crazy folks!
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happyone




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 25 2012, 11:20 am
Mimisinger wrote:
happyone wrote:
ally wrote:
The whole idea of shiurim is that halachikally, it is not really considered eating/drinking because the amounts are so small. If you cannot even do shiurim, it is an obligation to eat and drink.
Inserting IVs is invasive and it is not without risks. It is also, as others said, self inflicting a wound in your body and drawing blood.
I cannot imagine how someone who is trained in both medicine and halachah would support this. It disturbs me that this trend is growing and will soon be considered mainstream.


Obviously there are rabbanim and doctors that have a different take on all of this. I know many people that were told both by their rav and NON-JEWISH or jewish doctor to be on IV fluid instead of fasting.
if your Rav has a different p'sak you follow your own rabbi.

THEN YOU DRINK!

No non-Jewish or REAL Jewish doctor would say to put in an IV rather than drink shiurim. This is crazy folks!


I'm impressed how many women on this site know better than rabbanim and doctors!! Smile
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