Help! Any Ideas? | Imamother

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

Help! Any Ideas?

1 2 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 3:45 pm

My ds has decided that he wants to go to a different yeshiva for many reasons. He's 15 years old.

We are divorced and he lives with me. He told me and his father that he doesn't want either of us involved in his yeshiva and he found a place to go for himself. He gave me the name of the rosh yeshiva but told me not to pass on any details to his father. I wasn't too comfortable with this, but the family therapist said that in the meantime I should go with what this kid wants and give him the chance to work things out for himself if that's what he needs. So I respected ds's need for privacy.

For many reasons, ds has been home since Tishrei and only started at this new place now. The new place has no dorm save a very small apartment and it provides no food. It's a new yeshiva and according to ds, every boy has his story - this one's mother is widowed, that one has no money, etc, etc. And now ds tells me that for him to go there, it's NIS 1200 per month with no reductions. When I said I'd speak to the rosh yeshiva, he went mad with me and said he doesn't want to be "the misken" of the yeshiva. Then he asked me to ask his father to go halves with me.

That doesn't sound unreasonable on the face of it - BUT his father pays no child support at all and has never paid for anything. 600 NIS is a sum he'd never pay. Further, ds has refused to give details of this place and refuses to talk to his father at all. Now - he comes along and asks for money to pay for a place he knows his father doesn't want him to go to - it's a chutzpah and that's a fact. And ds wants me to do the "dirty" work and ask for money that I'll never see, even though according to the divorce agreement, he should be paying half of such expenses anyway. I really don't want to beg his father for this - I know that he'll just say no and leave it all in my lap.

So ds has now threatened me - pay up - or go halves with his father on 1200 NIS per month - or he won't go to yeshiva at all. At fifteen, he'll go out to work.

DS is a bright boy. But he's basically ruining his future by walking out of school at 15 with nothing behind him. I asked him if he really wants to be either in a dead end job or exploited because of his youth. Worse, he's capable of sitting at home and leeching off me because that is what he's been doing for months - sleeping all day and being awake all night. And I don't want it.

Just now, he wanted to stand over me and watch me write the email to his father. But I refused. So he said that he wants to read it before I send it. And I refused.

But now I am not sure what to do at all. I told him that I'm not going to be forced through manipulation to do anything. He's stormed off. But I'm really not interested in him parasiting off me now for however long.

Any ideas?

Isramom8

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 3:50 pm

Call the Rosh Yeshiva secretly and tell him he had better not let on anything to your son! You have every right to understand what the place is like, and try to work out the finances. But a 15 year old who has stayed home can be extremely manipulative, so it won't help you to be told just not to let him behave the way he behaves.

If you absolutely can't call the Rosh Yeshiva, get someone else to do it. Then you can say that "you" didn't contact him.

b from nj

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 3:51 pm

How about have him write to his father to ask for the NIS600 & explain the yeshiva situation to him directly rather than have you be the middle (wo)man?

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 3:54 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

I was thinking about doing that behind his back ... I can't believe that something can't be worked out. But I hope the RY will be smart enough to not let anything on. I wonder how we can do it.

BTW I wasn't told to just let him do whatever he wants, but in the meantime to go with this yeshiva idea to see how it develops because ds is so headstrong and stubborn and absolutely refuses to go anywhere else. So it was thought that we should give him the chance and see where this goes.

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 3:57 pm

b from nj wrote:

How about have him write to his father to ask for the NIS600 & explain the yeshiva situation to him directly rather than have you be the middle (wo)man?

I told him to do that, and he went mad with me. "I'm not talking to him. It's not my business how you cover the finances" etc etc. And then in the next breath, he tries to stand over me and to watch me write the email. (In the meantime I've written no such email. ...) I actually could see how he has learned abusive behavior by how he threatened to trash my room if I don't. So I told him not to be so ridiculous and that I'm not being pushed to the wall. And he sulked off to his room.

But I don't see Daddy paying anything. Because he never does.

b from nj

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 3:59 pm

amother wrote:

b from nj wrote:

How about have him write to his father to ask for the NIS600 & explain the yeshiva situation to him directly rather than have you be the middle (wo)man?

I really feel for you & your difficult situation.

Hatzlacha & hope you will work something out that will make you comfortable.

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:00 pm

I'm almost tempted to call his bluff and say, "I don't have the money. Your problem." But I just don't want him bumming around here doing nothing for the next however many years ...

Isramom8

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:04 pm

Of course he has to go somewhere he is motivated to go. Try to make it happen. But you can't be bullied because if you're not okay with the arrangement, at some point you won't be able to support it.

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:08 pm

That's the thing.

It's not like I'm holding out on him. We live just on the line as it is. I can barely cover our expenses as it is. I can't produce another 1200 NIS out of nothing ...

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:10 pm

I really feel for you. It must be horrible to have him home with you watching him be unproductive and probably giving you no peace. I have a 15 year old son who is getting himself into trouble and we have to find a place for him for next year. BH the place he is in now will keep him till the end of the year. I'm not familiar with the system in Israel. However, my instinct would be to be suspicious. What legitimate yeshiva would accept a boy who walks in the door without meeting the parents and without the parents getting a chance to find out what the place is all about?? Maybe in Israel it's different?? Please find out what this place is all about.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:18 pm

Let him work.
Propose that even if he works, that he see a tutor weekly, at your expense, at home. Not at the tutor's home.

Last edited by Dolly Welsh on Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:28 pm

I'm thinking more and more that I should call this RY. I also know the parents of a boy in the school and I think I'm going to call them and get some information. I think 1200 NIS is very high, especially as he's not sleeping in the apartment and no food is provided. Perhaps I should say that and see if I can get this figure down. It seems very strange to me.

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 4:32 pm

Dolly Welsh wrote:

----
I just read the part about his threatening to trash your room. That is unbearable. If that kind of thing keeps up, you have a police matter on your hands. That is a whole other thing, not an educational issue.
------------
I am not thrilled to hear him say the money part is your problem, if I understood that right.
-----
Maybe he should live with his father? Maybe he will have to live with his father? No physically grown male can live under the same roof with a woman he is threatening physically. If he gets a job or welfare, maybe you will have to move in with someone you know, leaving him your present apartment for himself? Perhaps somewhere he doesn't know about?

I am no expert and apologize for my ignorance.

I agree with you. But he wouldn't hear of going to his father. Right now, he doesn't like his father because his father is very domineering and I suspect this is part of the problem. He wants to break out from everyone's authority because Dad is domineering and Mom is too soft, tired, and overburdened. In fact, Dad is also not quite normal and I don't think he's a great influence on him at all. (Dad's a welfare cheat, who's working under the table to avoid paying child support). Even so, I'd love to know how to get him out of here if he decides to be a bum. Problem is that at 15, he's still a bit young to kick out. I wouldn't want to see him on the streets, and I have nowhere to send him.

Dolly Welsh

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 6:07 pm

No, don't kick him out.

You might have to kick yourself out.

I would speak to a Rav right away. You should not be on your own.

amother

Tue, Dec 25 2012, 6:30 pm

Yes Op, you know what you need to do. Please follow your own advice and call the parents who you know have a son there and get info. Then you can call the R"Y and work something out, he should be understanding and happy to accomodate your need for confidentiality.
I understand why you are walking on eggshells with your son as you want this to work out, and it's a fine line to know when to bend and when to stand firm.
Do what you have to do in a smart way. You are the parent and he doesn't need to know, be confronted, or be in charge. You definitely need more info-- as well as support.
Hatzlocha

Dolly Welsh

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 1:10 am

Fine.

But in case it doesn't go well, BEFORE doing that, OP could talk to a Rav or someone who is NOT involved with the school, so she has someone on her side.

Obviously the parents with the kid in this new school will say nice things about it. They have chosen it for their son. And its head might want OP's kid to have problems with his mom so she doesn't get him to go back to the original yeshiva. That might get him a new pupil. He might not scruple to leak to the kid. OP might hesitate about putting her trust in this unknown person.

OP might try to have a candid talk with this son, candid about what he is feeling at the old yeshiva and why he doesn't like it, candid about what would be good for his future, candid about what the financial status is. He is old enough to know that money does not grow on trees, and OP does not have a printing press to make more. Now, as a man, what is his judgment about how his educational allowance should be spent?

If academia is not his thing, can OP point him toward grounding in a skill or trade?

A vigorous young man wants to be good at something he can see, and others can evaluate objectively.

It is not tactically clever of this son to alienate, or potentially alienate, his only remaining parent. He could be left with nothing and nobody. His father does not sound much use to him, from what OP says. OP could tell him in a quiet moment, if one occurs, that his next stop may be worse than where he is now and that's not so good. Englightened self-interest is a very good thing.

amother

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 2:12 am

From my own experience and that of others, I'm beginning to think all 15 year olds should be rounded up and held in padded cells. Twisted Evil

I think you may have to call his bluff. He's doing an extreme of the normal pushing boundaries exercise and wants to see how you will react.

Do not give in to threats. Inform him that even a threat of violence against you, siblings or property will result in your calling the police. Yes, I know, nobody wants to do that. Tell him that he knows very well that you don't have that kind of money and that his father will not pay. Tell him that at 15 you are willing to let him have a say in where he goes to school but you have to check it out, approve and see if the financial arrangements can be made.

Yes, I'm well aware that all of the above is easier said than done.
Wishing you hatzlacha Hug

amother

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 2:23 am

You can't pay tuition without talking to the principle. Call the principle and find out about the whole thing. Something just doesn't sound right.

amother

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 2:25 am

You can't have ds threaten you in so many ways. Get a rabbi or an authority involved.

bamamama

Wed, Dec 26 2012, 2:27 am

amother wrote:

You can't pay tuition without talking to the principle. Call the principle and find out about the whole thing. Something just doesn't sound right.

Principles usually are not responsive to phone calls. PrinciPALs(get it, 'cause he's your pal, right?) OTOH will return a call.

And you're right about something not sounding right.

Page 1 of 2

1 2 Next