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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
"Chumras are destroying our youth"...
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DefyGravity




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 4:39 pm
When I think of chumras that could cause children to go off of the derech, I think of the ones that make life a lot more difficult, and kind of kill the beauty.

For instance, I grew up HATING pesach b/c my family went overboard freaking out over cleaning (lots of yelling and screaming involved) and I also hate(d) the lack of food we can eating during Pesach. I resent all the peeling, lack of garlic, etc.

The above paragraph is just an example, but I'm sure lots of kids grew up in homes where parents went overboard with certain chumras that just made things more awful.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 4:45 pm
These things are not really in our control nor is it about doing the best we can - cause I'm almost sure everyone in this forum does. Eating cholov yisroel or not does not establish how frum we are besides Haagen Daaz is delicious and so is Mr. Cholov Yisroel (whatever icecream stores you go to). We are not going there to defy religion we are going there cause we do not have the same minhag. That doesn't make us less religious nor does it make you more. When will you guys see that. There are plenty of so to speak religious garbed people who do not do the right thing. Where do they then stand with their religion. That is why and yes I will repeat it as many times as I feel I have to - religion, spirituality and humanity MUST BE BALANCED cause you can have one w/o the other and then the whole cause becomes MOOT!
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chocolate moose




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 4:52 pm
All I can think of is that chumras "refine us".

And I don't like any cholov yisroe OR pareve ice cream; if I can't have Haagen Dasz (never tried Ben & Jerry's but I doyubt it's BAD)

Simply put, a lot of the Jewish food is 2nd rate. I don't know why I'm not thinner, lol

Maybe that's a subject for another thread.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 5:08 pm
As someone who grew up without chumras, I'm not so sure you can blame it all on chumras. I'm sure for some kids it is a source of rebellion, as I felt resentful taking on dh's chumras, since it IS a chumra and without it is still frum. But from what I've heard the most- HYPOCRACy - is the number one reason of kids rebelling. They see it in their families or schools. Kids are not foolable, they see deep. They see people talking, preaching, and not doing. I think that is more often the reason. I think I'll stay amother for now.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 5:14 pm
I agree with the amother above.

Now, Ben & Jerry is delicious!
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shayna82




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 5:59 pm
amother wrote:
shayna82 wrote:
Im sure you are doing the best you can.

Are you implying that based on Greenfire's child's behavior, as described, Greenfire's best must have been or is lacking something?


im not trting to say or hint to anything. you guys are blowing this way out of proportion
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shayna82




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 6:01 pm
Lillyofthevalley wrote:
Quote:
Im sure you are doing the best you can.



this sounds as if your saying yeah you are doing the best you can but its not good enough, while I am on a higher level then you.

also the comment about Haagen Daz I find rude, Haagen Daz is kosher product just because its not Halav Israel it doesnt make it any less kosher.


did I imply that its any less kosher? for you it may be fine enough, for me its not. why is that hard to understand. this is not meant to insult you.

I dont think im on a higher level than anyone, I think im doing the best that I can too. stop reading into every word, and misconstruing what im saying.
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gryp




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 6:45 pm
Quote:
Halachic Regulations[170]

The later a generation, and the lower its spiritual status, the loftier is the Divine light which is garbed in the halachic ordinances of the Sages of that generation. For it is precisely by observing these takkanos that the Jewish people arrive at all the goals and revelations of future time.

Likkutei Sichos, Vol. IV, p. 1089



Quote:
but I'm sure lots of kids grew up in homes where parents went overboard with certain chumras that just made things more awful.

defy, dont you think that if the parents had a different attitude, the kids probably would too?
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TzenaRena




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 7:46 pm
Quote:
That is why and yes I will repeat it as many times as I feel I have to - religion, spirituality and humanity MUST BE BALANCED cause you can have one w/o the other and then the whole cause becomes MOOT!


Sometimes, in order for things to be really balanced, there has to be an exceeding amount on one side, compared with a smaller amount on the other. " for whomever the Yirah precedes his Chochma, his Chochma is maintained. ...He whose deeds are more plentiful than his wisdom, his wisdom is maintained, (and vice versa).

another example would be salt, to flavor food. You only use a little bit, and more would ruin things.

So what someone might consider the balanced may in fact be imbalanced.
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amother


 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 8:31 pm
Choc as far as your title chumrahs in my opinion are not the culprit but leniancys. And it is is a known fact that each generation rebels against it's elders, it's not a new phenomenan.................
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mumoo




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 25 2007, 11:53 pm
I think parents should remember there are differences between halachos, chumros, minhagim, etc.
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2007, 1:06 am
See, I took the woman's comments in the OP to mean aomething different...

That it's the KIDS who are becoming more frum than the parents, suddenly the house they're still living in isn't 'Kosher ENOUGH', the way the parents dress isn't 'Tzniusdik ENOUGH', the way they run the house isn't 'Jewish ENOUGH' and since many (not all) kids lack tact, it creates terrible friction in the house.

I know for my aunt, one of her daughters married a guy who only eats a certain hechsher. So it means she has to go out and buy that schitah. My mother had to change a lot of her Pesach cooking because my first husband didn't eat Gebrochts and we all did.

And depending on the relationship between child and parent and how the situation is approached and handled, yes, there will be resentment on the part of the parent who suddenly isn't ENOUGH for their kids.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2007, 3:33 am
greenfire wrote:
We are not going there to defy religion we are going there cause we do not have the same minhag. That doesn't make us less religious nor does it make you more. When will you guys see that.


greenfire, I could not agree with you more. it is different minhagim. just like in the shtetl ppl usually did what their parents did before, that is also still how things are done today and I know that nobody in my family eats chalav yisrael and so we dont either. that does not make us a lesser jew in our doings, it just makes us different, different minhagim, thats all. as greenfire said, when will you all see that that alone, different minhagim, does not make us less religious or you more?

Quote:
There are plenty of so to speak religious garbed people who do not do the right thing. Where do they then stand with their religion.


I have to agree with that. I have a friend who used to be chassidish and now she is not anymore. why you may ask? her husband who wore a bekisha, streimal, the whole garb, was abusing his children. thats really a way to be a religious jew, huh? so it was REALLY and TRUELY just external for him. his inside, his neshama was saying other things than religious judaism.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2007, 5:07 am
I have to disagree with many of the posters here. Many of the things mentioned (eg chalav yisroel) are not chumras (although people who don't keep it like to think so) but rather different opinions in halacha, which is not the same thing at all. That means that if your rav says not to eat chalav akum or not to use electricity on Shabbat in EY (that's something we do do, just to give an example of something that we also don't go by) for you IT IS THE HALACHA. You are not being machmir etc.

So, it is not right to say people are being put off by someone not eating gebrokts or a certain hechsher etc. Why are you so intolerant of someone keeping the halacha as his rav paskens?

Secondly, if someone is keeping chumras lesheim shamayim (for the sake of Heaven) he has every right to do so. Why are some people so on the defensive? I am not talking about hypocrites here and it is very important for someone to get advice from a reliable/ sensitive rav as to when something else is more important than the chumra (eg if it is really a chumra and it would hurt his parents). The problem with many of these teenagers is that the world is still black and white for them and they don't even think about asking a rav. But that is a problem with teenage crazes anyway, not specific to this issue.
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HindaRochel




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2007, 8:14 am
I think you misunderstand Shalhevet.
I don't think anyone is put off by someone else holding to a certain chumrah; it is those who insisting on making OTHERS hold to that chumrah for their sake. Not ask, not explain, not go out of their way to take the onus and difficulty of keeping that chumrah on themselves, but who either look down at those who hold differently, or who insist that everyone needs to help them keep it.

And you are correct; if your Rav poskens one way then that is the Halacha for you; but what many people don't understand is that isn't necessarily the preferable way for everyone, that isn't the "right" way. That is one among many "right ways". A rav may even posken differently for different members of his community. The right way is in accordance with one's Rav....And it isn't necessarily better to take on a stringency. In some ways it can be worse.

Or else everyone has to start tovling their plastic according to my rav. :-)
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DefyGravity




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2007, 9:15 am
GR wrote:
Quote:
Halachic Regulations[170]

The later a generation, and the lower its spiritual status, the loftier is the Divine light which is garbed in the halachic ordinances of the Sages of that generation. For it is precisely by observing these takkanos that the Jewish people arrive at all the goals and revelations of future time.

Likkutei Sichos, Vol. IV, p. 1089



Quote:
but I'm sure lots of kids grew up in homes where parents went overboard with certain chumras that just made things more awful.

defy, dont you think that if the parents had a different attitude, the kids probably would too?


I do. The problem I had with it is that it made my mother's life hell, she was under so much stress trying to keep all the extras, and it made me miserable.
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shayna82




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2007, 9:20 am
defy I totaly agree wtih you, and went thru something similar.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 26 2007, 1:21 pm
chalav yisroel is a chumrah for many people. not all. my sister and her dh took it upon themselves, others keep it only in the house, my son is trying to be makpid in it but has not made a neder on it.
for lubavitch (and possibly others) it is halacha. for my sister, my son and anybody else who knows I dont keep cholov yisroel, yet eats from my milchig keylim, it is a chumrah.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2007, 4:58 pm
shalhevet wrote:
That means that if your rav says not to eat chalav akum or not to use electricity on Shabbat in EY (that's something we do do, just to give an example of something that we also don't go by)



Just wanted to clarify this, although it's OT, because someone pmed me to ask.

We do use electricity on Shabbat. I specifically wanted to bring an example of a chumra/ different opinion which we are not makpid on, b/c I felt this thread was turning into people getting on the defensive about things they don't do themselves.

The opinion is from the Chazon Ish, that one cannot benefit in Israel from Jews who are breaking Shabbat at the electricity company. Those who go by this opinion often have a private generator for Shabbat use. If they don't they use gas and/or sit in the dark for Shalosh Seudos.

The heter to use the electricity is that people need to be working there for pikuach nefesh reasons (there is usually someone elderly/ baby/ very sick in your immediate neighbourhood who would need Shabbos broken to fix the electricity.)
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healthymama




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jan 27 2007, 8:24 pm
I would like to ask that the issue of whether or not chalav yisroel is a chumra or a halacha be left for the other 30 threads that discuss this very topic ad naseum.

As for the OP's original question, Rav Yisroel Salanter ( I think) once washed for bread with a very small amount of water. When asked why he did this, he said that the water has to be carried from the well by a young girl and it is very heavy and he does not wish to be machmir "on someone else's back". I think the Rebbe also spoke about this idea of not being machmir on someone else's account.

If more people would remember that, there would be less annoyance regarding chumras, imo.
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