Why are frum people's business websites so heimish

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AztecQueen2000

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 9:24 am

I'm surprised more companies don't just use a marketplace site like Etsy. It would solve a lot of problems.

Fox

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 11:23 am

amother wrote:

I think that when people think 'frum' sites, they think sites that sell frum products. In this niche you are all right, very few are well optimized because they find that most of their traffic comes from brick-and-mortar sales, not online. They may be right or wrong, but that is the general consensus.

IMHO, this is the crux of the matter.

Depending on the kind of business you're in, putting up a high-quality web site can be a hugely expensive proposition. I've worked on the database end of a number of professional websites where the graphics design bill alone came was $10,000-$15,000. If your potential customer base is "all pregnant women" or "all people looking to rent an apartment in Chicago," then that kind of investment makes sense.

Putting the same kind of money into a potential customer base of "all frum married women" would be insanity.

There's also an issue with suppliers:

Remember the thread a few weeks ago about the Jewish-themed costumes on Wal-Mart's website? Did anyone really believe that Wal-Mart workers diligently unpack those costumes every October? No. Not the way it works. Nor do cubicle-dwellers type in all the new products that Wal-Mart orders each year. In fact, Wal-Mart doesn't keep a stack of Rochel Imeinu costumes in a warehouse somewhere. If you order one, it comes directly from the importer with a Wal-Mart tag and shipping order neatly enclosed.

How does it work? Every 24 hours or so, Wal-Mart receives a download of data from the manufacturer which is then automatically formatted and thrown onto their website. Companies wishing to do business with Wal-Mart and other major online retailers are required to provide this data.

But unless you're a supplier dealing with huge online retailers, the added expense of such a data feed may not be worth it. That kind of technology is not going to be used to sell tichels.

Now, let's say you have a website that carries a particular kind of skirt popular among frum girls and women. The supplier, I happen to know, doesn't provide any kind of automatic update for websites. So if you wanted your website updated daily, you would have to get on the phone with the company and literally ask them to give you inventory figures for each item. Unless customers are willing to pay a lot more for a skirt, that kind of thing isn't going to happen.

In short, this is the invisible hand of the marketplace at work. Merchants are not stupid; if they find a way to make money easily, they'll be all over it. If it paid off for merchants and suppliers to offer more sophisticated online-options, they would do so. But unless either (a) we're willing to pay more for the experience of online shopping; or (b) the website has a large potential customer base, I don't think it's legitimate to complain too much.

SivanMom

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 11:52 am

There is actually another issue that I've run in into quite a few times. People feel pressured to use their relatives, neighbors, shul acquaintances or friends to do their site, whether they are kids coming out of "web design" school, or people with no talent at all. It's hard to tell your struggling SIL that her work is awful and you need someone more professional and experienced. My husband recently told his boss that their print ads are really not good or effective. His boss said that he knows but so-and-so relative does them and he can't switch. Very noble, but not great for business.

Isramom8

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 11:54 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

http://www.Rivkasmom.com

Anyone want to do a critique?

Cool and fun site!

amother

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 12:06 pm

I am still shocked how un-internet certain businesses are! our business (selling heimishe items) does over 5 million in sales and we didn't have a website until very recently because NONE of our sales were through the internet. it's based on word of mouth. I did the website myself and yes it is very lame and you can't buy things off of it, it just shows we're a legit company. despite my protests no one else in the business wants to pay $$ to make it nice, so as an amateur I did the best I could.

Isramom8

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 12:12 pm

My DH doesn't have a business. He has a community kollel, and the reason its site is so "heimish" is that the kollel had no website till I volunteered to make one. So you get what you (don't) pay for. Compared with other kollel websites, mine isn't bad...if you want to contact the webmaster my email address begins wth "webbetzin". Wink

mom2six

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 12:47 pm

ewa-jo wrote:

(this is my website, btw...any criticisms are welcome)
http://www.pregnancytestsisrael.com/

It's a nice site, but I would not buy from it because there is no information whatsoever about the product. Also, the Hebrew has many grammatical mistakes. Otherwise, it's easy to read and user friendly.

mandr

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 12:58 pm

AztecQueen2000 wrote:

I'm surprised more companies don't just use a marketplace site like Etsy. It would solve a lot of problems.

I think it's one of the worst marketplace sites out there. Their search criteria are totally confusing and not organized well. Like the prices are really weird - some for lots, some for individual items, so there's no way to search by price for anything. Everything comes with a different policy. For marketplace items, I only use Ebay. And for regular buying, I'm using Amazing for over 90% of my needs. I also have Student Prime which makes it great.

spinkles

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 1:41 pm

Fox, apples and oranges.

Many of the small frum sites are working only with inventory that they physically have right in front of them. It's not sitting somewhere in China. So needing data feeds from suppliers isn't an issue.

The site I ended up buying from is small. The site has a nice feature: when you click on the product and color you want, it tells you how many they have left. Usually the number is somewhere between 2 and 15. Good to know, especially if you're trying to decide whether to buy now. If there's only 1 left, better snap it up.

My husband does websites for people on the side. So I definitely have seen that you don't need amazing design, you don't need complicated inventory systems, you just need something simple and easy to navigate. It's really not difficult or expensive.

IloveHashem613

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 1:45 pm

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

Lots of frum businesses are still in the 1996 mentality of the Internet - that it's a nice thing, but not all that important for business.

I also see frum businesses on FB that post 5 status updates per day for 3 weeks, and then disappear for the next 5 weeks, on and off again... really unprofessional!

Recently, I had a consultation with a large frum business. They were interested in hiring me to re-vamp their website and integrate an online marketing strategy. A week later, they told me, "We decided that we don't want a large web presence because the rabbonim are against the Internet."

Then, they recently contacted me again and said, "Can you build us an app? An app is not really online the way a website is, so we're more comfortable going that route." Rolling Eyes

haha that is way too funny! What is wrong with people?? Oy, seriously, c'mon how do you expect to have a successful business these days but shun the internet? The app story is hilarious. Anyways, I didn't read through all the posts but I was just curious, what do you do?

spinkles

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 1:51 pm

Quote:

we didn't have a website until very recently because NONE of our sales were through the internet

Thank you for posting this; I have a rotten headache today and this made me laugh so hard my neck muscles are started to relax!!

It's a shame that you can't convince the others. Just as an example, I live OOT and could not get magnet alef-beis letters that have nekudos locally (our Judaica stores only had the ones w/o nekudos and were very hazy about when they might possibly order more) and couldn't find them online...so I was only able to get them because dh went to Flatbush for a chasuna and bought some for me. There are more of us living OOT and having limited options than people think.

busydev

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 1:54 pm

I also live OOT and sometimes I have called the "in town" stores (found the number on their website, but not the product) and had them ship it to me. Of course sometimes you get those salespeople that are totally not helpful... but overall I have had successes with just calling. tho it would be nice if it was available online.

cbsmommy

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 2:05 pm

chana_f wrote:

Fox -
I'd agree with you if the product was in Asia. But I only purchase from small businesses and I work alongside many many many small business owners. Sometimes I'm purchasing something material (requiring shipping). Sometimes the website is for a service and I'm about to work with graphic design business/printing company, typesetting, baker, musician, photographer, etc.

I've seen good DIY (Wix being a primary form). I've seen great DIY. I've seen DIY where my 4 year old make something more concise.

Some things that I've learned/wish others would practice:
1) Start with real life photos. A good digital camera costs $200. I'm not asking you to be a professional photographer. Fake it. Read a few blogs and purchase a mid level camera. I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I see photos that are so blurry, I'm not sure what I'm looking at. A decent camera pays for itself in this business. Do NOT just use an iphone. It has better resolution than my old LG clunker, but it's not a digital camera. And do not tell me when I call to ask you if I can see a sample that you can text me a photo. In this day and age, having a computer with a built in SD reader is fairly standard. Spend the $15 and get an SD card if you must. (Side note, the implied attitude that I'm a difficult customer will send me off to find a new supplier for next time)

2) Many of my suppliers (and we're talking small business owners, not huge distributors) have a system that shows exactly how many items are left in stock/out of stock. I do not appreciate purchasing an item, having my credit card charged, and 2 days later receiving an email saying "that item was out of stock". If it happens once after 6 years of steady purchasing, no problem, glitches happen. But if you need to call consumers on a bi-monthly basis and say "oopsie" I'm sooo outta there.

3) Off-line skills count. I've worked with some wonderful companies; contracts were timely, deposits were paid, the project was completed within the estimated time frame, invoices were correct, emails/voicemails received a callback within 1 business day, the store was open the hours that they advertised, etc. Some of the companies happened to be owned/operated by frum Jews. But, personally I've found (and please, I hope someone else's mileage has varied) when I've worked within things that are "frum" related, I've had consistently bad experiences. Late invoices, lack of response when calling/emailing (and then a response two weeks later, "sorry, I went with a different vendor over a week ago"), quotes that are nowhere near the actual bill (and really, I get it, sometimes things don't match perfectly, but if you tell me a job will take 10 hours and I'll have it Tuesday, but then 3 weeks later it's going to take 25 hours and you are still "in progress" I'm going to be frustrated...and I probably won't use your business again.

amother

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 2:14 pm

amother wrote:

You make five million dollars in sales, and yet you can't take off a few tens of thousands for a decent website?

When my dh went into business, the first thing he made sure to have was a legitimate website with all the info that potential customers might need about the business. And he made sure it looked absolutely professional. It's one of the most important aspects of a business these days. He's had countless clients tell him that they decided to go with his business based on the website.

TranquilityAndPeace

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 2:46 pm

IloveHashem613 wrote:

TranquilityAndPeace wrote:

I build websites. And integrate marketing strategies into the sites.

I always say that building a nice site is like building a gorgeous store... in Antarctica. While it may be beautiful, user-friendly, and have incredible products, if nobody can find it, then it's not going to be profitable.

This page lists my expertise: http://websiteswithwisdom.com/expertise/

bigsis144

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 2:58 pm

Any reviews of my site would be appreciated!
http://www.kolneshama.org/

I've been doing this website since I was 14... don't even ASK how amateurish it used to look... but I built it from the bare bones html up, eventually teaching myself css, wordpress and some basic php.

aniri

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 3:02 pm

All our workers mainly frum here's our site www.this-co.com what u think?

Inspired

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 3:09 pm

m in Israel wrote:

sarahd wrote:

ewa-jo wrote:

(this is my website, btw...any criticisms are welcome)
http://www.pregnancytestsisrael.com/

My filter is blocking your website because it has it categorized as "abortion". shock

Mine too! Maybe see if you can do something about that. . .

I'm assuming it's because of the "friends of efrat" mention on the bottom of the page.

Isramom8

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 3:25 pm

In Israel, far fewer businesses have websites. What they have are listings, where what they do and have are mentioned in their category, and then you can call them. I've been very successful finding what I want this way. It was very funny when I arrived at an obscure bookstore in Bnei Brak, and the guy there asked how I knew that they carried what I needed. I said that I found him on the internet - which he vehemently denied!

mom2six

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 3:26 pm

aniri wrote:

All our workers mainly frum here's our site www.this-co.com what u think?

I love it! Aside for the fact that the video didn't work, it's extremely professional and well done. Great job!

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