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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling
Magic and Fantasy in Books and Tapes



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Motek




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 21 2004, 1:00 pm
Over the years, even before the Harry Potter craze, I've read articles about what the Jewish approach is to books with magic, fantasy and the like in them. This is a very pertinent issue because books and tapes, primarily for children, use fantasy as a means of entertainment. For example, the 613 Torah Ave. series of tapes has talking lamp posts, talking mailboxes etc. to add spice to the recording. There's Dovy and the Surprise Guests, a children's story book about hachnosas orchim, which features animals instead of people. The issue in this thread is not about whether the animals are kosher or not. The issue is whether talking animals and inanimate objects are the proper medium for conveying Jewish ideas.

I remember one article which said this is not a good idea because these things are simply false.
Another article made the point of - if children know that mailboxes and the like don't really talk and it's make-believe, how will they relate to Medrashim in which animals and inanimate objects do talk? Will they dismiss Medrash as make-believe?
Yet another article pointed out that the Torah makes it quite clear that magic and witches are forbidden, so anything which glorifies magic is not a Torah value.
What do you think?
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mommy2




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Sep 21 2004, 6:04 pm
kids love to imagine things and by listening to these tapes, it relates to kids b/c that is how kids think. We want to develop their creative minds. It's different than telling them stories about ghosts, magicians, witches etc. which is tumah
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amother


 

Post Wed, May 11 2005, 9:40 pm
Aish website :
As far as your question about witchcraft, witchcraft is explicitly forbidden in the Torah (Exodus 22:17). Harry Potter depicts witchcraft, but is not witchcraft itself. Rabbi Moshe Feinstein writes that if the child reading the story is aware that these are fairy tales and not reality, then the stories may be read for its literary value. ("Igrot Moshe" Y.D. 4:13)
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elisecohen




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 4:11 am
I have to be honest. I don't have any citations to give, but I have never felt uncomfortable giving my children Harry Potter, Enchanted Forest or the like. However, let me be clear that I ALWAYS read any "young adult" literature or the like before allowing my children to do so and if the themes or situations depicted are not appropriate, they may not read the book. I agree that just as "magic" shows are permitted because we know it is all just trickery and not true witchcraft (which would be forbidden), so deliberately fictional depictions of magic and impossible things should be fine as long as the child is old enough to understand it is fantasy.
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Pearl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 4:22 am
I agree with elisecohen.
how old were your children when you let them read Harry Potter?
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elisecohen




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 6:47 am
For the first book, about 6 or 7. As the series progresses, it gets much more mature as well as more violent, and I would not let a child that young read or listen to tapes of the 4th or 5th books in the series without very close adult supervision if at all (and I must caution that the 5th book deals with dating situations among teenagers, including one--though only one very unsuccessful, unfulfilling--kissing scene). The Enchanted Forest series on the other hand, seems to be appropriate for any child old enough to read the books, there is nothing like the death or social situations found in the later Harry Potters.
When my oldest daughter was in about 2nd grade, she got very into "Goosebumps" books, about ghosts and monsters and so on. I wasn't sure they were totally appropriate at that point, and made up my mind to ask the school principal (a well-respected Rav with many children of his own). Before I got around to it, the principal's teenaged daughter came over to help as a chesed project, heard that my daughter wanted to read the series, and offered to give her a huge collection of the books which she herself had amassed but outgrown--so I found my question answered.
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Pearl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 7:06 am
I read all the harry potter books, but think my daughter (the only one who reads so far, she is 8) is too young for it. or too sensitive...
in any case, she doesn't show any interest in them so far, regardless peer pressure!
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1stimer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 12:10 pm
I heard a shiur about the Harry Potter books by Rabbi Orlofsky. He raised an interesting point: he said that the problem with the Harry Potter books is it glorifies instant gratification. A big part of the book is that it is so special to be a wizard because they don't have to work to achieve, they just say a phrase and vhoom we're flying on brooms. It doesn't teach kids that we have to work to achive. (I heard the shiur last year so I don't remember it 100%... )

I think Harry Potter is very different from the 613 etc. where lamposts talk b/c then it is just a way of making it interesting for kids. Like when you draw a picture of a tree with an eyes nose and mouth. It's just a way of making things come alive to kids.
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stem




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 12:20 pm
Harry Potter is full of hard work, frustration, determination, etc. I don't agree that it is about instant gratification. Even flying has to be mastered, as is depicted in the first book.
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1stimer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 12:51 pm
I don't know I'll have to hear the shiur again... I remember thinking it was a good shiur though.
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Pearl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 12 2005, 11:41 pm
Quote:
stem wrote:
Harry Potter is full of hard work, frustration, determination, etc. I don't agree that it is about instant gratification. Even flying has to be mastered, as is depicted in the first book.


exactly! actually, a lot of hard work, long hours of study and research, failure and success are involved.
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raizy




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, May 21 2005, 11:11 pm
children use so little of their imagination. so if tapes and stories depict . talking lamp post so be it. or magical flutes . who cares and the kids love it . it is the message that these tapes give over that is the important part of it.

on the other hand I never liked the Harry Potter series bc of the witches and the like of it. I dont think that I would let my kids read it bc of it.
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