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MOM222




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 07 2007, 9:04 pm
Can someout help me with proofs from the Torah that a woman place is in her home and not in the workplace.

Please note:
This is not a debate if its better to be a sahm or not. Its not a debate on where the money will come from. I'm just looking for places in the Torah that mention that a womans place is at home.
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shanie5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 07 2007, 10:00 pm
when the malachim come to avraham, they ask 'ayey sarah ishtecha' (where is Sarah your wife?).
and the answer 'hinei baohel' (in the tent)

I remember learning that it was a sign of her tznius that she was not outside in plain view of everybody. this is one source that a woman belongs in the house.
another place, where Dina is discussed, it is said she went out (and did not stay inside) and therefore shechem saw her and took her.

dont know if these are what you are looking for, but I dont know anywhere that it says a woman shouldnt go out to work, just that she should be in the "tent".
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MOM222




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 07 2007, 10:06 pm
Thanks shanie. I remembered Dina but not Sara.There must be more places.

I would think that sahm is a jewish idea. Otherwise why would woman be encouraged to be at home with their hildren (if they don't need the $$).
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happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 07 2007, 10:41 pm
chana didnt go to the beis hamikdosh ebcause she was with her son and she didnt hire a babysitter even thoguh she could afford ot.
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amother


 

Post Wed, Feb 07 2007, 11:42 pm
Ok,
so then explain to me, if this is the case, that women should be at home. Why is it that so many frum women get jobs to support kollel husbands and then leave their kids with a babysitter? Seems kind of silly if you ask me.
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healthymama




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 12:02 am
OP, are you interested in Torah sources that suggest that a woman does not need to be a SAHM ? Or just your original question ?
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Marion




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 1:29 am
happymom wrote:
chana didnt go to the beis hamikdosh ebcause she was with her son and she didnt hire a babysitter even thoguh she could afford ot.


No, Chana didn't go to Shilo because her promise was that if she had a son, the next time she went she would bring him to work in the Mishkan. She couldn't go and not bring him, so she didn't go until he was weaned.
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Twizzlers




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 8:44 am
not sure who brings this down but I remember learning:

in mitzrayim, one of the big tzaros was that the men were forced to do womens jobs (taking care of house/kids)and the women had to go out and work in the fields - mens jobs.

which obviously implies what the norm was....
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brooklyn




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 8:50 am
I don't think that it was a Jewish thing. All women in those days were in the home. That was the norm. In todays age it is common for women to work. If anything you can say that it is the norm for Jewish women to work so that the husbands can learn. I believe that was the case of many of our dedolim.
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Imaonwheels




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 10:37 am
\ishtecha k'gefen poriah byarchetei betecha - Your wife is like a fruitful vine byarchetei beiteicha when in the house (and your children like plantings around your table. The Rashi say says that when a vine is rooted by the home its influence spreads out and her offsping are as the shoots that will develop into fruitful adult plants. None of them will be lost.
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 10:48 am
I agree Brooklyn. Many Jewish women worked, even in the Middle Ages, to support their family.

Also, the eishes chayil seems to be a working woman imo.
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TzenaRena




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 10:53 am
Marion wrote:
happymom wrote:
chana didnt go to the beis hamikdosh ebcause she was with her son and she didnt hire a babysitter even thoguh she could afford ot.


No, Chana didn't go to Shilo because her promise was that if she had a son, the next time she went she would bring him to work in the Mishkan. She couldn't go and not bring him, so she didn't go until he was weaned.

Even so, that she made such a promise, was with the foresight and knowledge that she would have to be staying home because of it and she still did so, making it the priority over her yearly Avodah at the Mishkan; because at that point,it was necessary for her to be at home with Shmuel, so that he COULD become the kind of child that is brought to the Mishkan to be dedicated to Hashem for his entire life.

So happymom is correct.

BTW, the Lubavitcher Rebbe makes this very point, about Chana staying home with Shmuel, and postponing her yearly trip to the Mishkan, and not using a babysitter. (I think he knew the Tanach, with meforshim, medroshim etc. too Wink )
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ceo




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 12:52 pm
amother wrote:
Ok,
so then explain to me, if this is the case, that women should be at home. Why is it that so many frum women get jobs to support kollel husbands and then leave their kids with a babysitter? Seems kind of silly if you ask me.


I don't think this thread is supposed to be a debate about kollel wives working. You're right, there is a problem, and its not such a pashut inyan, but we can assume that every person who is working full time and leaving their kids so their husband can learn Torah has asked their own Rav a shaila about their specific situation.


Last edited by ceo on Thu, Feb 08 2007, 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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brooklyn




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 12:54 pm
Never assume anything.
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shayna82




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 1:02 pm
shanie5 wrote:
when the malachim come to avraham, they ask 'ayey sarah ishtecha' (where is Sarah your wife?).
and the answer 'hinei baohel' (in the tent)

I remember learning that it was a sign of her tznius that she was not outside in plain view of everybody. this is one source that a woman belongs in the house.
another place, where Dina is discussed, it is said she went out (and did not stay inside) and therefore shechem saw her and took her.

dont know if these are what you are looking for, but I dont know anywhere that it says a woman shouldnt go out to work, just that she should be in the "tent".

thank you for those wondeful sources. this has actually been an inspiration to me today, sometimes imdying to be outside talking to people my own age and using my other parts of the brain for something other than diapers and playdou

thanks!
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happymom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 1:20 pm
Quote:
No, Chana didn't go to Shilo because her promise was that if she had a son, the next time she went she would bring him to work in the Mishkan. She couldn't go and not bring him, so she didn't go until he was weaned.


ive learned miforshim inside that talk about cahna not going to shilo because she wanted to stay with her son and yes because she was nursing him but still she could have left him with a babysitter but she didnt.
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MOM222




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 4:55 pm
imaonwheels which parasha is this in?
TIA
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MOM222




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 4:57 pm
healthymama wrote:
OP, are you interested in Torah sources that suggest that a woman does not need to be a SAHM ? Or just your original question ?


I'm interested in sources that encourage a woman to stay home.
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batya_d




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 8:51 pm
Ruchel wrote:

Also, the eishes chayil seems to be a working woman imo.


Yep!!
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ceo




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Feb 08 2007, 9:19 pm
Ruchel wrote:

Also, the eishes chayil seems to be a working woman imo.


Did you ever hear of metaphor?

No really, in all seriousness (although much of Aishes Chayil is a metaphor, if you have the time, you should really learn the Gra's peirush on it's very inspiring), I don't know if we can compare a woman who planted a vineyard in her backyard to a woman who goes to work in an office in 2007, you know what I mean?

FYI- I make it clear right now that I am not a SAHM, but I do believe that that's the ideal. It's just not realistic financially or emotionally for many, many people.
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