Is it REALLY a Mitzva

greenfire

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 1:18 pm

Why is it that men think it is a mitzva to drink till they are under the table vomitting and do not help their wives - it drives me crazy. It also bothers me that bochurim go around collecting tzedaka and also drink till they are sick. This to me looks like a chillul Hashem. I feel the need to instill in my son that this is inappropriate - yet he feels that he knows better. Last year he got sick and I do not want a retake ... advice please

greenfire

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 1:46 pm

So you want all the details - here goes - yes I personally like to drink - I've been drunk it has been known to happen. I have learned to drink and get happy but not to the point of being under the table. Maybe dancing on top - but happy. That being said I do have 2 kids who had severe substance abuse problems. Last year my ds got drunk (while under the "yeshiva" rule cause they want the boys there - in my opinion went over the line. and no he doesn't always do this and no he is not my girls. I really want him to be careful this year and I just do not know what will make him listen to the importance of being not drunk to that point.

PinkandYellow

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 1:47 pm

I just heard a psak from a very very well know, well respected rav here (who happens to be known for his helping couples b'davka with shalom bayis) that it is a mitzva for a man to drink on purim. of course, there is no obligation to throw up, and not all do. and def after man has had his fun, if he's thrown up, he could clean his own mess.

shalhevet

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 2:06 pm

greenfire wrote:

I never saw anyone who behaved like this.

As far as your son goes, I would get a man he respects like a yeshiva rebbe to have a man-to-man talk. Coming from you it's just overanxiousMom who won't let me have a bit of fun.

greenfire

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 2:09 pm

shalhevet wrote:

As far as your son goes, I would get a man he respects like a yeshiva rebbe to have a man-to-man talk. Coming from you it's just overanxiousMom who won't let me have a bit of fun.

Actually I don't mind him having a bit of fun it's the ad d'lo yadah that I have a problem with - but I definately will ask someone (maybe my rav) to talk to him that is a great idea!! ty

amother

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 2:19 pm

Quote:

I never saw anyone who behaved like this.

Where do YOU live?!? shock

I've definitely seen it and it's sick! And usually its others that are pushing them to drink more and more cause they want to have some fun. My Dh does drink cause its a mitzvah, but he stays totally in control and knows what hes doing. Maybe he won't always remember exactly what he said, but he never says anything embarrassing. I've seen men in shul getting so drunk and saying the most embarrassing things and their wives running out in shame embarrassed

hila

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 2:28 pm

My son told me that in his yeshiva they have a shiur before purim about what and how to drink on purim. then there are rules about when they may visit their rabbanim. And NO ONE si allowed to talk about Purim after it is over.

Do I like it - No. I hate teh drinking in the shul and in the streets.
I stay away and then am told I am a spoilsport.

I love our Purim spiel - a play put on after megilla for al the English speakers in town. But I don t "get" the drinking.

In our house we dont really have drink - my dh's father was an alcholic and he stays away from it. Maybe we will have a glass of good wine each and some fizzy stuff for the kids.

I prefer to invest in the food and funny divrei torah at the seuda

Grinch

Motek

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 5:09 pm

greenfire wrote:

it's the ad d'lo yadah that I have a problem with

okay, so you know it's a mitzva, brought in Shulchan Aruch

that doesn't mean they must vomit
if they learn from the "experts" they'll know how to drink and what to drink to avoid that
and Purim is once a year, are you really very bothered about husbands who don't help their wives one day a year? If they help all the other days, I think the wives are fortunate.

and of course great people drink, they know how to do it right

greenfire

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 5:14 pm

Actually I used to love Purim until it became a drunken chore where H wouldn't take kids to their friends cause he was too busy drinking - so I had to do everything!!! It looses simchas purim - that's why maybe if you can't beat em join em Clown

NotInNJMommy

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 6:55 pm

My mashpia has a saying "A Kasherin Purim, und a freilechen pesach!"

I think the disturbing behavior is a sign of people with lack of maturity or lack of middos....not necessarily a high BAC.

We live near a yeshiva. (20-30). Near every student (the older 20-30 yr olds), rebbi, baal habayis is drunk...It's usually in spirit with Purim and while they are rather incapacitated and just go about signing/dancing/etc, they aren't behaving badly or untzniusly...and there are always a few people who have bad middos and that is also brought out. Yes, it's annoying to be a single parent for a day, but dh is pretty tame all year. I figure I should let him hav ehis kosher fun with the guys.

baseballmom

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 7:46 pm

amother wrote:

I think a man can have a day vacation from helping thier wives. I want my husband to! he deserves it! Smile

This is NOT about a man having his "fun with the boys" or a vacation day...it is a question of whether or not this is a mitzvah...

also, why do your dh's have to be drunk all purim or not helpful all purim? Some years DH fulfills ad delo yada by taking a nap other eyars when he does get drunk he does it at the seuda, which is at the end of purim - this year around 330 pm - so he is around and helpful the rest of purim, helps with the Dcs, gives them a wonderful, age-appropriate purim, helps me set up for seudah etc, and the only thing I am "left with" is cleaning up from seudah and putting dc to bed, which I often end up doing anyway during the week because of DH's schedule.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now...this topic just gets me worked up

shayna82

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 7:46 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

I never saw anyone who behaved like this.

Where do YOU live?!? shock

I live in pittsburgh, ive been here for close to five years. I have yet to see anyone that drunk on any occasion. (okay, one single guy in his 30's, whose the one and only drunk guy around, hes got issues) but bochrim and forsure husbands and fathers, no way hoseey... not in public, not in shul... even on simchas torah, where you cantell that guys are drunk, there is nothing like that. its not tolerated. people should take a lesson from the kehila here in pittsburgh. and the teenagers look up to the adults to set the limit, and that is obvious here too. there is no, come to lubavitch they have drinks. there is a kitchen, in which my father inlaw is in charge of, it is locked from the outside.the married men and older shluchim bochrim are allowed in. anyone else is not. no drinking outside of that room!

Motek

Sun, Feb 25 2007, 7:51 pm

3cutiesmommy wrote:

This is NOT about a man having his "fun with the boys" or a vacation day...it is a question of whether or not this is a mitzvah...

and greenfire answered her own question - yes, it's a mitzva, written in S. Aruch