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I'm a pet lover, ask me anything!
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 15 2013, 6:50 pm
OK, as per this thread http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....50#2726150 my DH and I are bli neder going to write a book for frum pet owners.

The first step, is that I need as many questions as possible. Really stretch your imagination! I'll collect the list and separate them into categories, and then we'll start researching with sources. DH is a research maniac, and I've owned pets my whole life. Cats, dogs, rats, snakes, fish, birds, bugs, you name it, I've probably owned it at one point or another.

DH is Lubavitch, but we will not be covering prohibitions of seeing or owning non kosher animals. This book will be for people who are already comfortable with owning non kosher pets, or are considering it.

YES, we are planning on doing a huge chapter on Pesach! Very Happy

Some ideas to get you started:

Mukzah
Food
Illness
Trapping/escaping
Grooming
Leashes
Eruv
Working animals (barn cats, hunting dogs)


Ask me anything! (and if I already know the answer I'll post in this thread.)
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vintagebknyc




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 15 2013, 6:51 pm
this is a great idea!
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anon for this




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 15 2013, 6:53 pm
I really like this idea. I'd include information on service animals as well.
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bigsis144




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 15 2013, 6:59 pm
Spaying/neutering pets is a halachic topic that is simple (I.e. direct answer) yet complicated (how to find loopholes) -- AFAIK, neutering is assur even for a ben Noach.

Halachos of tza'ar baalei chaim (ex. amira l'akum is permitted on Shabbos to prevent it)

Halachos of euthanasia
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 15 2013, 7:12 pm
Excellent starts, keep 'em coming!

I can't believe I forgot about service animals. D'oh! (we need a hand smacking the forehead icon)
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rae gi




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 15 2013, 7:16 pm
If your dog sneezes, can you say "Gezundtheit"?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jul 15 2013, 7:56 pm
rae gi wrote:
If your dog sneezes, can you say "Gezundtheit"?


I'm pretty sure it's pronounced "Gezundt-hund"! Tongue Out
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 17 2013, 8:05 am
Bump.

Any more questions? I need a LOT so that I can start getting them organized for DH.

I'm going to report this thread to Yael, and see if she's willing to pin it.
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mamacita




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 17 2013, 12:42 pm
Owning dangerous animals
Liability for damages occurred by animal
What constitutes tzar b l Chaim For pets
Feeding animals first?
Show dogs/pets
Pooper scooping on shabbos
If danger befalls on shabbos (Aquarium filter shuts off for example)
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vintagebknyc




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 17 2013, 12:45 pm
ferrets
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chani8




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 17 2013, 1:00 pm
Include the most lenient psaks on pets as muktza, please.

Can pets be 'useful' for shobbos (therefore not muktza) if they are theraputic?

If you find a very young puppy abandoned on your doorstep on shobbos, can you take it in? (True story.)
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chani8




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jul 17 2013, 1:03 pm
Oh, another strange question. If someone's pet bird flies into your home on Shobbos, what are you permitted to do? True story.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 2:53 am
All excellent questions!

And I forgot about ferrets. What would be a good question for a ferret lover to know? All I know is that they are nocturnal, and can make a HUGE mess if they get into a sack of flour. I used to room with a couple who had a pair of the little maniacs. It was like having tiny raccoons in the house. LOL
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 3:02 am
chani8 wrote:
Include the most lenient psaks on pets as muktza, please.

Can pets be 'useful' for shobbos (therefore not muktza) if they are theraputic?

If you find a very young puppy abandoned on your doorstep on shobbos, can you take it in? (True story.)


If the pet is YOUR pet, they are not muktza on Shabbos or Yom Tov, because you derive pleasure from them, and because they rely on you to give them comfort as well. You must be careful when petting them, that no attached hairs come loose. Any slight shedding is not a problem. This also includes "working pets" and therapy animals of all sorts.

Re: a lost puppy or your neighbor's bird, I'm assuming you're concerned about "trapping". If they come into your house on their own, then you may not close the door with the intention of keeping the animal in, BUT you may close the door because it is getting cold outside. If the animal is trapped as a consequence of it being cold outside, then it is not a problem. The important part here is your intent.

If you have the split intention of "Awww, the puppy came in looking for scraps from the Shabbos table, and I'd really like to keep him - and gee, it's getting cold out, isn't it?" Then you have to really think carefully and be honest with yourself.

In either case, in no way can you place a block in an open door, like a baby gate or some cardboard, because that is not the usual way of closing an entrance. On the other hand, if you are concerned that your child may run out of the house, and there is a stray animal inside, then you may put up the gate to protect the child.


Wow, this book is going to be SO much fun! I love this stuff. Very Happy
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 3:07 am
mamacita wrote:
Owning dangerous animals
Liability for damages occurred by animal
I'll have to look that one up, it's in the Torah, under "an ox that gores".

What constitutes tzar b l Chaim For pets
Can you elaborate on what that means?

Feeding animals first?
Always feed pets first (it keeps them from begging while you eat!)

Show dogs/pets
Specific question here?

Pooper scooping on shabbos
Poop is muktza, but you can put it in a bag and move it a few feet to the edge of a shrub (without walking), and come back to remove it after Shabbos (BTDT)

If danger befalls on shabbos (Aquarium filter shuts off for example)
You need to get a [gentile] to turn the aquarium pump back on, and you can't ask directly. If it's broken, you have a big problem. Hope that your fish can survive a few hours until you can get it sorted.
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anon for this




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 7:24 am
FranticFrummie wrote:
mamacita wrote:
Owning dangerous animals
Feeding animals first?
Always feed pets first (it keeps them from begging while you eat!)

I believe that halachah requires one to feed her pet first (it's derived from a pasuk in shma, I think). I 'm not sure how this applies to pets that aren't fed daily.

Is there any halachah governing declawing of cats?
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chani8




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 7:46 am
Thanks, FF. You answered the bird question. The puppy thing happened a long time ago. DD noticed a tiny tiny puppy wimpering just outside the front gate on shobbos morning. Without thinking, she snatched him up and brought him in. Once inside my house, there was nothing to do, as he was not leaving. So what was DD over on, I'm just curious?
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 7:54 am
chani8 wrote:
Thanks, FF. You answered the bird question. The puppy thing happened a long time ago. DD noticed a tiny tiny puppy wimpering just outside the front gate on shobbos morning. Without thinking, she snatched him up and brought him in. Once inside my house, there was nothing to do, as he was not leaving. So what was DD over on, I'm just curious?


Carrying and trapping. Nothing to do about it now, just move on! (I would have taken in the puppy too, and then thought "oops!" later. embarrassed )
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FranticFrummie




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 7:59 am
anon for this wrote:
FranticFrummie wrote:
mamacita wrote:
Owning dangerous animals
Feeding animals first?
Always feed pets first (it keeps them from begging while you eat!)

I believe that halachah requires one to feed her pet first (it's derived from a pasuk in shma, I think). I 'm not sure how this applies to pets that aren't fed daily.

Is there any halachah governing declawing of cats?


If animals aren't fed daily, then you are obligated to feed them at the time that they would expect to be fed.

Declawing cats is (IMHO) "causing needless pain to an animal", but I'd have to run it by DH. Docking the tail of a show dog is different, because it's done in the first 7 days of life (kind of like a bris). Declawing is done to older animals who can suffer severe, lifelong pain and emotional distress.

BTW, DH is a shochet, and he is VERY concerned about animal welfare, and minimizing pain at all costs. You should see him with my chihuahuas - I think he likes them more than I do, the way he fusses over them! You'd never know he was a FFB who's never had a pet before.
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happyone




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jul 18 2013, 9:15 am
Great idea! I would make sure a rav reviews your book to make sure it's all halachically sound. for example, different rabbanim have same take on deriving pleasure from animals therefore not muktza. we were told specifically that pets were muktza Shabbos regardless. (bunnies, parrot and kitten)
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