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Parnassa: Money given/money taken away
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supermom









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 3:48 am
I just learned something interesting. Hashem has a set amount of parnassa that each person is suppose to make a year. No matter what happens lets say a person gets robbed of his money, jewerly, or anything on that sort. If this robber takes something that is really what he is suppose to have during that span of the year. Hashem has to come give it back to him. But if you make too much Hashem takes it away through bills, tickets and the like.
Thought it was interesting.
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Pearl









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 4:31 am
very interesting indeed.
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juggler









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 5:19 am
(Ok, this is from memory- so sorry no sources quoted).
In the same place where it discusses how a person's parnassa is decided by Hashem in the beginning of the year, it says that this 'budget' does not include expenses for shabbos and yom tov (and the Lub. Rebbe added to my grandfather in a private audience that it also does not include "yiddishe simchas and chasunos").

That is why when ppl. work on shabbos we explain that it's like just adding a spigot to the beer keg- no more is in there, it just drains faster. That's also why when I sometimes do/ see things that waste money, I tell myself- better it go on this then health issues etc... because as supermom said, if the money has to go, it will somehow, better it be in a good way. And the best way of course is to spend it on tzedaka (create the cure before the disease). There are lots of stories illustrating this point but I can only quote from memory so they would be quite vague- the one that sticks out in my mind is about some tzaddik who told two businessmen brothers to keep track of all of their tzedaka for a year. Towards the end of the year, one of the brothers was arrested on a libelous accusation and was told to pay a huge fine. The second brother asked the tzaddik what to do, and he was advised to take a relatively small amount of money and to try to bribe the guard for his brother's freedom. To the surprise of the second brother, it worked. Later, when the brothers returned to the tzaddik to thank him, they asked him why he thought that such a plan would work, when the original fine was many times that amount. The tzaddik said that he saw in shamayim that the brothers were slated to lose a certain amount of money that year. He told them to keep track of their tzedaka but it still did not add up to the full amount. When the brother was arrested, the tzaddik knew how much was left in the 'balance' to be lost and suggested that they use this amount to free him. When the brothers asked the tzaddik why he did not tell them this in the beginning of the year, they would have just given a bit more to tzedaka, the tzaddik replied because then it would not be leshaim shamayim (or something to that effect).
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supermom









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 5:38 am
that really makes my point much clearer. that is an amazing story thanks. As for a source that whatever you spend for shabbos and yom tov doesn't come off your amount of money, and is given back 7 fold I have heard that one told to me thousands of times. sorry no source for that one too.
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sarahd









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 6:16 am
I don't know about the sevenfold part, but the gemara says "kol mezonosov shel adam ktzuvin lo miRosh Hashana ad Rosh Hashana chutz mi hotzo'os Shabbos veYom Tov" (and if I'm not mistaken, also money he spends on his children's chinuch.) I need to look up the exact quote, but can't do it at work.
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supermom









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 6:27 am
sarahd wrote:
(and if I'm not mistaken, also money he spends on his children's chinuch.)


that is also including with the shabbos and yom tov not sure it is mentioned in the same quote but it is included. that is why a lot of people would spend so much money on chinuch for their kids to have the best teachers and tutors.
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1stimer









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 11:57 am
question: what about if someone spends money frivolously (sp)? Can someone take this as a license to spend whatever they want? Hashem is decided my parnasa anyway, I like that great big new car, I can go buy it?
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Motek









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 12:17 pm
Quote:
Regarding whether buying one's wife a new dress for Yom Tov is included in the "Divine reimbursement" one receives for "Shabbat, Yom Tov, and children's Torah education" (Gemara Beitzah 16a): You may be astonished to find that the Shita Mekubetzes in the name of the Ritva says that the "Divine reimbursement" applies to expenses of all mitzvos, and that these three were chosen as examples because they are common and regular.


Quote:
A person's yearly allowance is fixed on Rosh Hashanah, except for three types of expenses. What are they?
Expenses for Shabbos, Yom Tov, and the cost of one's children's Torah education. (Ba'er Hetaiv Orach Chaim 242:1)


There is a parable of a wealthy man who has two married children. One child is very wealthy while the other one is poor. The father sends out invitations to the two children, inviting them to come visit him in honor of a third child's bar mitzvah. The father asks that, in his honor, they buy new clothing, and that whatever they spend for this, he will repay.

The wealthy child spends a fortune, adorning himself and his family in the finest raiment, while the poor child is unable even to borrow the amount needed to buy the simplest of new clothing. After the bar mitzvah, the wealthy child presents his father with a hefty bill, which the father refuses to pay: "I promised to pay expenses incurred in my honor," says the father. "Had you been concerned with my honor, you would have seen to it that your poor brother attended the bar mitzvah in new clothing. As it occurred, he arrived in rags."

So too, G-d promises to reimburse you for what you spend for Shabbos and Yom Tov; but only if you prove that you are doing so to honor the Shabbos, by providing for the needy and the poor just as you do for yourself.
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Motek









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 12:30 pm
The classic story that illustrates the promise that what you spend for Shabbos you get back, is Yosef Mokir Shabbos, about Yosef who bought the expensive fish, in honor of Shabbos, and found a jewel inside (that the wealthy man had sewn into his hat to protect it).

Quote:
when I sometimes do/ see things that waste money, I tell myself- better it go on this then health issues etc...


Quote:
Can someone take this as a license to spend whatever they want?


A person has free choice and can flush his money down the toilet if he so chooses, but then what will he eat?
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sarahd









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 1:06 pm
Good point! A person could throw away his money on foolishness and the next day lose his job r"l - what does he do for the rest of the year?
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supermom









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 1:15 pm
whats the question that you are asking?
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sarahd









  


Post  Wed, May 18 2005, 2:17 pm
It's a rhetorical question. No answer expected. Smile
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Motek









  


Post  Sun, Jun 26 2005, 3:33 pm
When chanam posted the story about the tzadik and the brothers it rang a bell and I thought it was a story in the Gemara with a famous person. I asked around and couldn't find the source until ... I got an e-mail the other day with the story AND a source:

On Rosh Hashana night, Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, author of the Zohar, dreamed that his nephews would be asked for 600 dinars by the government. R' Shimon told them about the importance of giving charity to the poor.

They didn't have much money and asked R' Shimon how they should give.

"Give with an open hand" Rabbi Shimon adjured "don't worry about tomorrow,
G-d will provide. And most important; write it all down. Every penny you
give, write down on a paper and at the end of the year, if you have lost out, I will repay you.

Almost a year later they had another strange visit, from the Roman police with a warrant for their arrest. Someone accused them of selling silk
without paying the tax to the government. They began weeping and protesting their innocence but to no avail.

Trembling with fear they were led off to jail where they were given a
choice; either pay an outrageous fine of six hundred dinar or produce an
even more outrageously priced silk garment for the king, both of which were utterly beyond their means.

When Rabbi Shimon heard what had happened he immediately rushed to the prison and got a pass to visit his relatives.

"Where is the account of the charity you gave?" He asked. "How much did you give?"

"Here" they replied as one of them pulled the small parchment from his
pocket.

Rabbi Shimon took the account and noticed that they had given almost six
hundred dinar; they were just six dinar short. "Do you have any money on you?" he asked.

They produced six dinar that they had sewn into their garments in case they needed it. Rabbi Shimon took the money, bribed one of the officials, their charges were dropped and they were released.

Outside he explained to them what had happened. "This past Rosh HaShana I dreamt that the government would demand of you six hundred
dinars. That is why I told you to give charity, to negate the decree.

"Then why didn't you tell us about that and we would have given
the money immediately and spared ourselves a lot of anguish."

Said R' Shimon, "First of all, you wouldn't have believed me and second of all, you wouldn't have given charity for the sake of heaven. (Vayikra Raba chap. 34)

The same story is brought in the Gemara, Bava Basra 10a with a few differences, for one thing, the story in the Gemara is with Rabbi Yochonon ben Zakai, and it was with 700 dinars.
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lucky









  


Post  Mon, Jun 27 2005, 8:33 am
my husband one week earned an extra 300- .car a.c. broke that week
new tires were needed when some side money was earned.
I have seen it happen countless times.
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supermom









  


Post  Mon, Jun 27 2005, 9:13 am
this case earning extra is not such a good idea after all in your case Wink
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Motek









  


Post  Wed, Aug 17 2005, 6:13 pm
I was touched by this - an excerpt from a speech given by Rabbi Feigelstock of Argentina about special needs children.

Quote:
Hashem sends parnassa for all the children as the [Lubavitcher] Rebbe says that every child is born with his bread in hand.

I see this in my own life. We had a daughter, a girl named Bracha. I was in a very difficult financial state at the time. I was broken by this until I decided to trust in Hashem and that’s when things improved.

Today, I look at things completely differently. I spend a fortune on my son with special needs. Since I am not a citizen there [Argentina], we don’t have rights like you have in Eretz Yisrael. We have to pay for everything ourselves, therapy, traveling for treatment, etc. I estimate my expenses for this child to be $50,000 a year while my salary is $20,000 a year!

But boruch Hashem, I make a good living and I get various jobs here and there. I don’t owe anyone anything. I cover all the expenses to visit Eretz Yisrael for the summer with the entire family, to rent an apartment and rent a car. It’s not cheap! Yet I say that it’s on Hashem’s cheshbon and not my cheshbon. I don’t earn money in a natural way anyway, so why be cheap? Let me be expansive! Should I drive a small car? I’ll take a big car! I am not cheap with expenses because it’s not my cheshbon. In any case, Hashem covers them and it really works. Hashem does not leave me without money.

Just recently, I paid about $5000 for eight weeks of treatment for my son in Yerushalayim. This is a fortune, aside from the apartment, the car etc. And I’m paying for two homes, here and in Argentina where there are expenses too, for I didn’t leave there.

Boruch Hashem, I manage it all and Hashem sends every child with what he needs. We don’t need to be frugal and we don’t need to fear jumping into the sea. You just have to make sure not to worry, because worrying shortens our lives, our heart and our nerves. We must live with bitachon. Bitachon means relying on Hashem to take care of accounts.
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Mommy912









  


Post  Wed, Aug 17 2005, 7:13 pm
With all due respect, I do not agree with this statement:
Motek quoted Rabbi Feigelstock of Argentina who wrote:
It’s not cheap! Yet I say that it’s on Hashem’s cheshbon and not my cheshbon. I don’t earn money in a natural way anyway, so why be cheap? Let me be expansive! Should I drive a small car? I’ll take a big car! I am not cheap with expenses because it’s not my cheshbon. In any case, Hashem covers them and it really works. Hashem does not leave me without money.

Training ones self not to be wasteful and be Mistapek beMuat is a very important thing. Being able to say "this is a luxury and I don't need it" helps not only when dealing with the specific item but in improving the person as a whole.
I know that we discussed this in the "Luxuries vs. Necessities" thread but it applies to this post. My point is not 'who needs what?" but rather that I disagree with the attitude of "why be cheap because Hashem will pay".

Lehavdil, compare it to the free bowl of mints at the exit to the restaurant. Some people will take one or two, others will line their pockets because "it is not my cheshbon, it is free."

I am not discussing the Bitachon aspect, but rather the aspect of not feeling the need to control yourself.
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Tefila









  


Post  Wed, Aug 17 2005, 7:24 pm
There was a beautiful article on the aspect of money and though there is hardly a connection here I thought you wouldn't mind if I shared Wink I saw this in a new jewish magazine from montreal someone showed me.... wish I rememberd the name. It spoke about wasting money and we r people of chesed so if someone has a heart attack r"l we have hatzalah but what prompted the heart attack in the first place.... who knows the pressure of preparing and going into million dollars of debt to make his daughters wedding. In other words the author said we the nation of chesed deal well w/h the after effects but do we deakl well to try to prevent the cause and sadly he said not. How we have to have certain hats for our Bar mitzvah boys why should they stand out. Shocked How a smorgasboard at a wedding is vital I mean what a wedding it will be w/h no smorgasboard Shocked He brought great examples how we have 101 gemachs to help everyone and everything but this is not the answer we as a nation have to stop and refocus. My cousin made an interesting statement maybe he generalised too much Confused . But he said in chutz laaretz two men outside a shul most time s will be discussing the dollar whereas in eretz yisroel two men outside the shul will be going over a verse of Torah. Yep

Last edited by Tefila on Wed, Aug 17 2005, 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lucky









  


Post  Wed, Aug 17 2005, 7:34 pm
I have a similar article written many yrs ago. It's about all chesed organisations that would not be needed if the standard of living would not be so high.
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Motek









  


Post  Wed, Aug 17 2005, 7:58 pm
Quote:
I am not discussing the Bitachon aspect


Mommy912 - I understand your point and I think Rabbi F. would agree with you, but his point IS bitachon! And the topic of luxuries is not one he was addressing at all!

I am disappointed that his point is being missed Confused
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