Heartbreaking Tablet Article - What can we do?

marina

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 8:03 am

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewis.....all=1

This personal account is just tragic. What can we do? I was thinking civil lawsuits for intentional infliction of emotional distress and the like against these rabbonim and therapists. Any other ideas?

Quote:

I had watched, after my family’s issues were brought into court, how my children’s attitudes changed markedly. They grew withdrawn in my presence, eating dinner in silence and refusing the books and games I had bought them. My boisterous bunch of three girls and two boys, ages 6 to 14, who had previously seemed always to be crawling all over me at all times, began to speak to one another in hushed tones, their attitudes subdued, looking to each other awkwardly and to me barely at all. They began to inspect the labels on food products, and then picked at their dinners reluctantly. When I asked what was wrong, they turned away, looked at the clock, anxious to leave. Finally, my 7-year-old son looked me in the eye. “Mommy says you want to turn us into non jews.”

Quote:

In my case, I didn’t lose in court. I lost my children’s hearts and with them, very nearly, my sanity. I had been many things in adulthood—a husband, an entrepreneur, a computer programmer, a blogger—but for 14 years, fatherhood defined me most. When my children withdrew their affections, I no longer knew who I was.

marina

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 8:59 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

What can we do? For starters, we can stop supporting the people and groups that perpetrate these injustices. We can stop making excuses for their atrocious behavior.

Of course, based on past posts every time this topic pops up here, I know that many posters here don't even find any of this wrong, so I wouldn't expect them to want to do anything at all.

You mean like stop giving their meshulachim charity? Stop going to their rebbes for brachos? Who does that? Does anyone on this site really do that?

BlueRose52

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:15 am

marina wrote:

Barbara wrote:

Simply heartbreaking.

Do you think civil lawsuits against the organization and individuals would stand a chance in courts?

Highly doubtful. There's very rarely a clear person or group that can be pointed to with any legal certainty as having acted wrongly. These things are really hard to prove. When it's a whole society that is implicitly sending messages to a child that his tatty is a horrible person, who exactly are you going to point to?

And who do you imagine would file these suits? The parents themselves have already been impoverished as a result of their original custody battle!

MaBelleVie

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:27 am

marina wrote:

BlueRose52 wrote:

You mean like stop giving their meshulachim charity? Stop going to their rebbes for brachos? Who does that? Does anyone on this site really do that?

Without getting into specifics (please leave out the details), I do know that certain groups have lost support from others due to certain injustices that have recently been prominent in the news.

Isramom8

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:31 am

Very sad. I've seen kids turn away from one parent in what was supposed to be joint custody.

But tell me - how is this man trying to work with the community toward the goal of being a parent to his kids? He knows it won't work on his secular terms. He does understand the Chassidish mindset, yet he pretends not to. How is he being smart?

From what he wrote, I can see ways that he can make his kids and the community far more comfortable around him. Why is he just whining? It'll get him sympathy, but not his kids' hearts.

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:36 am

This story is very sad and tragic! I have tears in my eyes reading.
I cannot believe how judgemental people can be w/o knowing both sides!
As a person of a brother who chose to go otd, I cannot begin to tell u the pain we have gone through!
We always left an open door for him to come back and never spoke on him or belittled him! We all went to therapy to be able to handle this situation. He made my parents and my whole family sick, and we were still always there for him.
Regardless, he always found something he can blame on us! So nothing we did was ever good!

I happen to know Rabbi Tumbir as he is my 2 sons menahal, and I cannot begin to tell u what a nice person this guy is! Never met a/o like him in my life!
What makes u think he was not going through hell watching this happen to his daughter! Its his blood! He gave birth to her with his wife! How can people talk on him like that?
When u r in such a situation, u dont know whats right and whats wrong to do anymore! Everything u do is wrong!
I guess u cannot understand what pain he must be in cuz maybe and hopefully u never went through this, and I pray for u, u shud never go through this!
I love the way these young men that chose a different way of life write such an article and make it sound so good on their side!
If the people on the other side can just write an article of what goes on on their side, u wud cry!

When u take a young chassic child and u put him in a non jewish environment we all know what happens! Who r we trying to kid? If he wanted that way of life y did he have children with his wife that wanted to raise her children the way he was and not what he is now. He also chose that way until he decided it didnt work for him! If u wanna change urself ,go ahead, but dont bring a whole family down with u!
U cant confuse kids! What shud they think? Mommy is like that, totty is like this, We look like that... whats goin on... it embarrassing to the kids in my opinion.

U may bash me all u want, but u will never understand if u didnt go through this urself!

I also feel very bad for these women and guys that choose that way of life as a runaway. Theyr so insecure, and they nebach dont know what to do with themselves from such a nimusdiga life!
And btw, a lot of them end up coming back b/c they see they didnt end up being happier!

BlueRose52

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:38 am

Isramom8 wrote:

He actually tried very hard working with the community. In another article he wrote, he went into detail about it (e.g. taking his kids to shul on shabbos, not having a secular newspaper around his house, etc.). The fact is the community DOESN'T WANT the kids to have anything to do with him, so it doesn't matter how hard he tries to accommodate their demands, they will do whatever they can to prevent it from happening.

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:44 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Its not that the community doesnt want the kids to have anything with their father, im sure its his wife not wanting her kids to look like him!
She lost her husband already! She doesnt wanna loose the rest of her family!
Cant imagine the pain she must b going through!

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:44 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

marina

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:58 am

BlueRose52 wrote:

marina wrote:

Barbara wrote:

Simply heartbreaking.

Do you think civil lawsuits against the organization and individuals would stand a chance in courts?

1. They stand a chance of winning. Here is a link about typic tort claims that do succeed. http://www.divorcesource.com/r.....shtml

2. Even if they don't win:

* The publicity will raise awareness
* The victims will have their day in court
* The attorney fees will hit the community
* The defendants may be pressured into settling

3. There are sympathetic attorneys who will take this pro-bono. I would take it pro-bono if I was authorized to practice in NY.

marina

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 10:01 am

ysmommy wrote:

unless a parent is abusive they should never be kept from their children.

these stories go both ways. there are just as many stories of people who leave orthodoxy and get custody of the children and its the religious parent who has to fight to see them.

it boils down to people get ruthless when it comes to divorce and will do anything to destroy the other person.

Nope. When OTD parents try to get custody, the community (family, rabbonim, schools, everyone) comes out against the OTD person and often poisons his or her relationship with the kids. That doesn't happen with OTD people who get custody. There's not a whole OTD community willing to throw money into court battles and villify the frum parent - there just isn't.

Barbara

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 10:01 am

amother wrote:

BlueRose52 wrote:

Isramom8 wrote:

Oh, please.

Her complaints were that he wore jeans when picking the kids up, or fed them the "wrong" kind of matzo on Pesach, you know, the one with the treyf stuff with the giant OU on the box. That should not be a basis for depriving a parent of the right to raise his children, to spend time with them, to bond with them. When he sends them home chol hamoed Pesach with leftover bacon double cheeseburgers, having spent Sunday afternoon wandering around the Museum of Z3x, let me know.

And, frankly, if these kids' Judaism is so weak that spending one day a week with their father who is wearing jeans would send them off the derech, then there's a bigger problem than their father.

marina

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 10:02 am

Isramom8 wrote:

What are some specifics that you suggest? His kids are telling him he is a [gentile].

sequoia

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 10:02 am

Amother, what the heck are you talking about? In the interests of "not confusing" a child you would deprive them of a loving parent?

Mommy and totty dressing differently or reading different books isn't what screws kids up. What screws kids up is parents who are abusive psychos. Religious or secular. Unless that's the situation, no way should children and parents be forcibly separated.

Just because isn't frum doesn't mean they're a bad parent.

You only get one shot at parents. Let's not throw the good ones around.