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What do you think of my aliyah plan?



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Ashrei




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 17 2013, 2:00 pm
So.

We want very much to make aliyah. However, Israel is a bit intimidating for us.
- no hebrew
- parnassah question
- no family, a few acquaintances (we won't miss family here, just saying we don't have that resource there)
- no concept of locations in Israel, what is where, etc.
- clueless

Here's my plan, please let me know what you think:

We had a NBN skype meeting, and they narrowed down a few key locations that might be suitable for us. I plan look into each location by:
- reading the NBN website
- joining the yahoo forum for that particular location and introduce myself
- find schools first (PRIORITIZING SCHOOLS)
- post to the wonderful imamothers for insight.
- pilot trip: eventually travel to that town and hopefully make some connections and get a feel for it (and see the schools)

I plan to do this for about 4 locations - more if I don't find "IT."

Regarding the pilot trip, since we have no support to help with the kids at home, I was actually thinking to wait 2 years until the youngest is 4. I'd like to use those 2 years to do all the other research and maybe learn a little Hebrew.

So what do you think of the plan? How do you feel about choosing a location based mostly on finding the right school? The kids should be 9, 6, and 5 when we make aliyah with Hashem's divine assistance.

Looking forward your input.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 17 2013, 2:53 pm
I think choosing according to schools is actually a very good idea - if you have the right type of school, you will probably have like-minded people too. Though I wouldn't decide only because of that.

LEARN HEBREW NOW

Did I say that loud enough?? That's the most important thing - for jobs, for schools, for everything.

If I were you, I would not wait. The younger your kids are, the easier. 7 is much easier than 9. Why don't you plan for this summer? That still gives you time, and summer is the easiest time for kids in school.

And you should ask here about possible parnasa too, and make a plan.

Where are the 4 locations?
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Sanguine




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 17 2013, 3:14 pm
shalhevet wrote:
I think choosing according to schools is actually a very good idea - if you have the right type of school, you will probably have like-minded people too. Though I wouldn't decide only because of that.

LEARN HEBREW NOW

Did I say that loud enough?? That's the most important thing - for jobs, for schools, for everything.

If I were you, I would not wait. The younger your kids are, the easier. 7 is much easier than 9. Why don't you plan for this summer? That still gives you time, and summer is the easiest time for kids in school.

And you should ask here about possible parnasa too, and make a plan.

Where are the 4 locations?

I agree about looking for a school - You usually say you're looking for a neighborhood that has good schools for your kids, but I guess it can go the other way - Look for a school that has a good neighborhood for your kids.

What's the Parnasa story? Do you have degrees and professions? Have you been following the other thread going on right now?

The question of waiting depends. Why are you waiting 2 years? It will be much much easier for your kids if you come early. Does waiting affect your chance of employment? Don't push it off unless you have a good reason.

Make sure to move to a neighborhood with English speakers and Olim.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 17 2013, 3:22 pm
I agree with shalhevet. It's a good plan but make that LOTS of Hebrew. For your kids, too (there are kids' TV shows and songs in Hebrew online, things like that that might help).

Hebrew is often one of the biggest factors for parnassa, too, and IMO it's the biggest for feeling at home here.

I think prioritizing schools is a great idea. Just keep in mind that there's no one school that works for everyone, so sometimes it's better to be in an area with 3 possible schools that all get (overall) OK-to-good reviews than in a place with a single school that gets rave reviews. The latter is better if that school works for all of your kids, but on the off chance it doesn't - make sure there's another option too. JMHO.

(And of course look for other things too, like job options, accessibility, activities for kids, general cost of living, etc.)
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 17 2013, 3:27 pm
I think that jobs are the most important issues.

Schools are together with community, and you'll want to narrow it down to a few places, not just one. You won't know just from NBN descriptions. Your pilot trip will include checking out different communities.

While it's nice to move to the perfect place straight off the plane, if you aren't so familiar with Israel, and it sounds like you aren't, it may take you another move or two before you are more settled. That's not the end of the world. You may also have to move depending on job and commuting situations, or a variety of other needs. Israel is small but commuting can be complicated, and it's not so small. You can't live in Beer Sheva and commute to Haifa (open a map, even online, and start taking a look at cities and towns and where they are.)

While I think schools are important, there are a lot of good schools in a lot of places. I don't know where you place yourself religiously, but I am very picky. I am MOdern Orthodox and want a very religious school that is also very modern, with strong secular studies and with real Torah studies for girls (same or close to same curriculum as boys.) That is quite limiting. But for elementary school these things are less of an issue, and for high school there are still options throughout the country, though mostly in the Jerusalem area. My point is that there are a lot of good schools, and it may again be trial and error.

And I agree move sooner rather than later. Much easier for kids.
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Ashrei




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 17 2013, 9:17 pm
Peanut2 wrote:


While it's nice to move to the perfect place straight off the plane, if you aren't so familiar with Israel, and it sounds like you aren't, it may take you another move or two before you are more settled. That's not the end of the world.


That does scare me a little. I don't like moving. And if we have a good therapist for my son, it would be hard to find over again. Read on.

To be honest, the reason I'm thinking to wait so long is because of one thing I didn't mention: That we have a child who needs a lot of physical therapy, some other therapies, and a shadow in school. I am only now beginning to learn the special needs programs here in NY (Board of Ed etc.). Of 10 physical therapists we've tried here in NY, only 3 are really capable of treating him. In addition to normal aliyah decisions, I need to find the right people for him in EY, and learn how to access their services (in that order). It's absolutely confounding. I don't know where to start, except to pay a social worker in EY $130/hour to give me advice (as per NBN's recommendation). I'd rather network first, with other special needs parents, and get SOME clue before diving into a financial commitment like that.

He's 2 now and if he's 4-5, maybe with Hashem's help, he'll be more independent and so that would make it a little easier. We're not sure until then if it would even make a difference, but we're davening.

Gosh how I'd love to go this summer as shalhevet suggested. I'm in the process of getting evaluations and everything done for my son - here in NY, with the Board of Ed and all, I like to know where we stand 6 months in advance so there's no lapse in services. I hereby proclaim that upon his refuah shleimah min hashamayim, we're making aliyah THIS SUMMER!!!!!

And since I'm so busy getting him what he needs here, and some other things going on, plans for Aliyah aren't my full time job. I figured it would just take longer.

Also, regarding parnasah, and are thinking of a way to make aliyah at separate times so we can continue with his income or somehow transfer his current job to EY. We haven't gotten far enough into planning to have a time frame on that. Anything is possible with Hashem's help.

THANK YOU for
- confirming my plan to find a school first
- shalhevet, for the learn hebrew advice. Thank you for how you worded it too, I need straightforward and clear instructions like that to avoid self-delusion. ("Eh, I'll just pick it up when I'm there. And if not, everyone there speaks English anyway.") I should print your post and tape it on my mirror.

I'll type more about our personal hashkafa and the places we're looking into in later posts. (I was following the parnassah thread btw, very good advice on there...)
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Dec 17 2013, 10:17 pm
OP, I strongly suggest you post in the special needs forum, regarding services in Israel. I know there there are a lot of people who made Aliyah specifically so that they could get better access to services.

If you open a new thread, I'll try and post resources as I come across them. I'm sure lots of other posters will jump in and help, too.
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Marion




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:07 am
If your child is school aged he'll be put into a school that can meet his therapy needs. The health funds will not fund therapies for him if he's eligible for them in school. (THEY MIGHT FUND THERAPIES DESPITE GETTING THEM IN SCHOOL BUT BE PREPARED FOR AN UPHILL BATTLE. AND LEARN YOUR HEBREW!) I say this as the parent of a child in the "special needs" system (small class, therapy in school, but not a completely special ed school).

Also know that they're unrolling a new approach to the SPED program across the country. It gives parents the right to choose where their child is placed (regular classroom with supports or SPED classroom) based on what SPED/support hours the child is eligible for. Do your homework. You will need all the paperwork you can possibly lay your hands on; start collecting all evaluations and therapy progress reports now. You will need a placement committee session (even with the new program; they make a recommendation you get to decide whether or not to accept that recommendation).

There are a few SPED parents around the forum. Come prepared.
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Ashrei




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 10:01 am
Thank you Frantic and Marion. (Marion, those rules actually sound similar to here (including the uphill battle) and the 'new approach' is a little sad - here, it's been clearly the parents choice to mainstream w/support or send to a special school.)

So I'll definitely start some new threads imy'h soon to address this.
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smss




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 10:15 am
OP, I just wanted to add another point to consider. many chinuch professionals don't advise making aliyah with kids that old. (the cutoff I heard was over 5) the school system here is very very different, and it's a hard transition to put your kids through, especially if you have a child with special needs who needs very specific services. is there a mentor/rabbi who knows your family well and also knows what it's like here, at least generally, who you could discuss this with to make sure it's the right move for you?
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 10:35 am
I don't want to be discouraging, but with especially with a special needs kid make sure to do your research WELL. For some kids the opportunities here are much better, but for others they are much worse. My experience is (and other mothers here can correct me if I'm wrong) that if your child needs a special ed school or even a special ed class, you have a lot of options here (assuming you are not Chareidi). But there really is not much available in terms of support for a child if you want him mainstreamed. (There is no equivalent to the NYC "para"). For example, my son was in gan safah and did great there. When he "aged out", they did not feel he needed a special program, so he's in a regular 1st grade. I am now getting all of his therapies (speech, OT, and "tipul rigshi") through my Kuppah, which means running around like crazy bringing him to and from appointments, AND paying a fortune in copays. (Between him, another younger son who gets certain therapies and a baby who gets PT, I pay over 300 shekel A WEEK in therapies that in NYC I would have gotten for FREE through either the DOH or the DOE depending on the age of the child).

As far as waiting, although I definitely agree that younger is better, I also strongly believe that coming with the proper preparation is more important than the kids being a year older. It is worth waiting an extra year and doing it properly, IMHO. My oldest was 8 1/2 when we came, and although it was difficult for him, he was still young enough. (I know that Rabbi Orloweck advises people not to come with children over the age of 9).

Hatzlacha!
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 10:39 am
My son is in a special-ed gan for autistic kids and he gets EVERYTHING at school. The base tuition is like a regular school and we pay just under 7,000NIS for the school year... but we get back a few thousand shekel because he's on the spectrum.

IMO, a pitfall about moving to where the best school is that suits your children is that one year, the administration could be great, and then the next year there's a change in personnel and it's a terrible place to be.
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 11:22 am
YESHASettler wrote:
My son is in a special-ed gan for autistic kids and he gets EVERYTHING at school. The base tuition is like a regular school and we pay just under 7,000NIS for the school year... but we get back a few thousand shekel because he's on the spectrum.

.


Exactly what I see -- if a special ed program/ class is appropriate, there are a lot of options. It's the "in between" kids who really get lost here. (I LOVED gan safah, and kept my son there an extra year. But now he's too old, so I'm stuck) My son who I mentioned above has ADHD and some language delays -- enough that he really needs support, but not enough to warrant a special class.

(BTW, OP, you don't say what your sons needs are, but if he is on any kind of medication, that is something to research as well, as many variations of meds that are available in the U.S. are NOT available here, so it would be worthwhile finding out, and researching alternatives if necessary. Also, depending on your insurance in the U.S. drugs may be much more expensive here.)
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Ashrei




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 11:32 am
Thank you YESHASettler and m in Israel for such important information. And smss you bring up an important point about asking a rav, I'm going to ask my DH to call (the one we'd ask happens to be in EY as a matter of fact Smile )

My son has spina bifida. There is no question he would need a 'shadow' at school to help him physically, but he is cognitively normal (if not quite bright, if I do say so myself LOL ) At 2 years old he uses a walker to get around. He will probably graduate to crutches soon enough, and with Hashem's love and mercy, be able to go up and down stairs himself, eventually. It seems that he learns like a regular child his age, though.

If anyone knows of someone in EY with a child who has a similar diagnoses and you could connect us, it would be much appreciated.

This thread is turning into such a wealth of information for me. Thank you so much. I feel like I made so much progress in such a short time. imamothers are the best!
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BeershevaBubby




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 11:32 am
My other son is in Gan Sfati. If he needs further help for elementary school, we can out him in a Kitah Mikademet.

BTW, one of the possibilities for my spectrum son is a shadow in the mainstream class.
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m in Israel




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 11:38 am
Actually, something like spina bifida may actually be easier to get services for than learning or behavioral issues which have a much more subjective element. But I don't know too many details.

Where do you fall on the religious spectrum? Are you looking at DL type of schools or more RW places? That also makes a big difference. Unfortunately since the more RW places tend to be more independent they get less government funding and have less available for special needs students.
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mandksima




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 18 2013, 12:50 pm
I am one of those imamothers who came on an earlier than planned aliyah because of special ed kids. Very different situation from what you're explaining though so my experience won't necessarily help you. I would suggest looking at the betuach leumi website to find out if a diagnosis of spina bifida is enough to be called handicapped. The specifications are very exact and I was surprised that both of my children were denied financial help because they didn't fit their criteria. I assume your child would benefit but I never checked. If he is eligible, the money you receive each month can help with therapy co-pays, travel expenses to specialists, a shadow if not covered, etc.

We have been here 7 years and every year is different in what my kids are getting through the school. We had my dd in special ed for a few years, then in a regular class with a shadow and therapies for a few years and now she should be going back to special ed for junior high. Kids change and their needs change, it is important to find a place that you feel can provide many different options as you may need different ones as the child grows. My ds has been in special ed all seven years but for junior high, we must find him a more specialized school as we see the standard special ed classroom is no longer meeting his needs. Often, special ed classes offer group therapy with the whole class. Private therapies are usually only for a few select kids who seem the most needy each year. If your kid doesn't get, you have to try to get through the kupah and therefore you have to make sure a therapy center is nearby and you are happy with it.

I agree you should find a group here with kids with your exact issues so you can see what they say. I also think waiting 2 years might be detrimental to the older kids. See if there are any Hebrew speaking kids they can play with as practice. The younger ones will pick up in gan but if your older one is already in school, you have to incorporate Hebrew in her daily studies now. Some kids pick it up easier than others.

It is wonderful that you can do Skype with NBN. Get into this group on Facebook and see if you can find other parents with SB kids- Bridge it - Olim Educational Advocacy.

Good luck!
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