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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
Which would upset you more?
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| Finding out your child is Gay/Lesbian? |
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80% |
[ 56 ] |
| Finding out your child is working off the books and getting programs? |
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20% |
[ 14 ] |
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| Total Votes : 70 |
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Motek
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 Thu, Mar 29 2007, 3:26 pm
| DefyGravity wrote: | I read it in a local Orthodox Jewish Baltimore publication nearly a year ago.
It's ok, I know that's not a good enough source for you. |
Question is - what was their source of information?
It may be more than I think but that is NOT the same as saying it's a big reason for divorce!
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DefyGravity
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 3:31 pm
Woops, I'm not talking about regular divorces.
It's the main reason for quickie divorces. (I.e., people that divorce after being married for a week or so).
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Ruchel
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 3:39 pm
I would have thought it was long term divorce because they couldn't stand it anymore, not quick. How do they know they won't be able to get along in one week? unless someone is abusive, I do not see... 
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mimsy7420
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 3:47 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | I would have thought it was long term divorce because they couldn't stand it anymore, not quick. How do they know they won't be able to get along in one week? unless someone is abusive, I do not see... |
actually I know a couple in this situation, she found out after a few months, and ALL the rabbonim told her to divorce him.
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DefyGravity
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 3:50 pm
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Ruchel, generally when a person finds out this type of information, they don't wait around to see what will happen. It's not worth the pain and suffering that they'll endure to try and make such a thing work. I don't think it can work.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:14 pm
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Maybe I'm silly but unless the guy himself or someone else tells about it, how can she know in a week or so? I agree that she would leave after learning about it, but if people weren't willing to warn her before marriage, why so soon after?
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yoyosma
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:15 pm
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Well, some men could refuse to sleep with their wives or something like that, thats a quick way to find out.
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mimsy7420
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:16 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | Maybe I'm silly but unless the guy himself or someone else tells about it, how can she know in a week or so? I agree that she would leave after learning about it, but if people weren't willing to warn her before marriage, why so soon after? |
A week, a month, or 6 months - it's all relatively quick.
But you are right, someone probably told her or something else must have opened her eyes to it.
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DefyGravity
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:19 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | Maybe I'm silly but unless the guy himself or someone else tells about it, how can she know in a week or so? I agree that she would leave after learning about it, but if people weren't willing to warn her before marriage, why so soon after? |
I'm assuming that your husband wouldn't be able to become aroused around a man, right? Well, if a man is gay, chances are, he won't be able to become aroused at the idea of s-x with a woman. If a man's not aroused, it won't work and a woman will realize quickly that something's amiss.
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Motek
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:19 pm
| DefyGravity wrote: | Woops, I'm not talking about regular divorces.
It's the main reason for quickie divorces. (I.e., people that divorce after being married for a week or so). |
thanks for clarifying
I find it puzzling though as a "big reason" since the men often remarry soon afterwards.
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Ruchel
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:43 pm
| yoyosma wrote: | | Well, some men could refuse to sleep with their wives or something like that, thats a quick way to find out. |
true, but why would he get married if he doesn't even try? I would think he got married to have kids since he doesn't like women, but then why not try for kids? unless he got married to look normal only...
I do know such a couple, that's why I'm asking. They got divorced after 3 years, both say the marriage wasn't consummated. She says it's because he is gay or impotent, he says it's because she's "very ugly". It's a weird situation and no one of them is remarried.
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mimsy7420
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:47 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | | yoyosma wrote: | | Well, some men could refuse to sleep with their wives or something like that, thats a quick way to find out. |
true, but why would he get married if he doesn't even try? I would think he got married to have kids since he doesn't like women, but then why not try for kids? unless he got married to look normal only...
I do know such a couple, that's why I'm asking. They got divorced after 3 years, both say the marriage wasn't consummated. She says it's because he is gay or impotent, he says it's because she's "very ugly". It's a weird situation and no one of them is remarried. |
he probably got married because he was lonely and all his friend were getting married and he was bored. He might have thought it could work. Or he could try. But she might not be so, shall we say, willing to try, especially if she thinks he decieved her.
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yoyosma
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Thu, Mar 29 2007, 4:56 pm
Ruchel, maybe in the moment he is so revolted he just cant?
Although most of the divorces I have heard about that the cause was homos-xuality were done within a few weeks after the marraige.
However, I do know of one sad story of a guy who knew he was gay, everyone who knew him knew he was gay who married a woman because he really wanted to do "Teshuva" and please his parents.
He got married, had a child, could not handle it anymore, left his wife and is no longer Frum.
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Ruchel
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Fri, Mar 30 2007, 12:53 pm
Sad story yoyosma!
Only1 I've just asked dh for more details and you're right, he was one of the oldest unmarried among his friends and his father was pushing for marrying this girl as she's got a good yichus. He was also bored as you said because he used to spend all his time with his friends and many of them had moved after marriage.
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mimsy7420
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Fri, Mar 30 2007, 1:26 pm
| Ruchel wrote: | Sad story yoyosma!
Only1 I've just asked dh for more details and you're right, he was one of the oldest unmarried among his friends and his father was pushing for marrying this girl as she's got a good yichus. He was also bored as you said because he used to spend all his time with his friends and many of them had moved after marriage. |
Yea its hard because my DH has a very close knit group of friends, they used to go out all the time and get together. Now since almost all are married, they get together, but its different, its mostly couple events and the boys who aren't married feel kinda lonely and left out. I know one boy specifically was itching to get married, and now he is engaged, but they are having a lot of problems. I think he got engaged way too soon because he wanted to get married already. Sad.
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Ruchel
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Sat, Mar 31 2007, 4:31 pm
| only1 wrote: | | Ruchel wrote: | Sad story yoyosma!
Only1 I've just asked dh for more details and you're right, he was one of the oldest unmarried among his friends and his father was pushing for marrying this girl as she's got a good yichus. He was also bored as you said because he used to spend all his time with his friends and many of them had moved after marriage. |
Yea its hard because my DH has a very close knit group of friends, they used to go out all the time and get together. Now since almost all are married, they get together, but its different, its mostly couple events and the boys who aren't married feel kinda lonely and left out. I know one boy specifically was itching to get married, and now he is engaged, but they are having a lot of problems. I think he got engaged way too soon because he wanted to get married already. Sad. |
I see what you mean... dh also had a group of very close friends like yours basically, they went to shul together, to kollel and so on, they spent all shabbes together, and when he met me he started having less time for them and they became all weird. When I met them some were just polite but definitely not nice, and when I complained to dh he said it wasn't personal and they acted like that every time one got married.  Of course it became worse when they heard he would live the town.
The silliest was his best friend, in the beginning he would beg for coming with us when we went out, b'h dh put a stop to that after a few times. After we got married, we heard from another guy that now he was "depressive", didn't go out, felt "alll lonely and abandoned" and was "all jealous" What's that? it sounds a bit [crazy]. It is true that they were always together, but my best friend definitely doesn't act like that. I've heard he has started shidduchim and got engaged, broken up, back with her, broken again and so on. At least 3 times in less than 6 months. 
anyway...
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amother
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Sat, Mar 31 2007, 8:19 pm
| Quote: | | Um, I never said they choose to be gay. I said they choose the lifestyle. Someone can be gay, but choose to live a Torah lifestyle with marriage, kids, etc... |
but they wont be happy and prob wont have a happy marriage 
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southernbubby
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Sat, Mar 31 2007, 11:12 pm
I have this to say about the stealing issue. While nothing can make an avaira
"right", what if the US government had been more proactive during the holocaust by rescuing Jews? We lost one-third of our people then. What if even half of them had survived? Wouldn't our community be bigger and have more jobs to offer its' constituents? I feel that our frum community still suffers economically from what happened during WWII. The US didn't cause the holocaust but it WAS in their power to save Jews. While it doesn't openly persecute Jews, it did nothing to help them during that time.
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BeershevaBubby
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Sun, Apr 01 2007, 1:44 am
| southernbubby wrote: | I have this to say about the stealing issue. While nothing can make an avaira
"right", what if the US government had been more proactive during the holocaust by rescuing Jews? We lost one-third of our people then. What if even half of them had survived? Wouldn't our community be bigger and have more jobs to offer its' constituents? I feel that our frum community still suffers economically from what happened during WWII. The US didn't cause the holocaust but it WAS in their power to save Jews. While it doesn't openly persecute Jews, it did nothing to help them during that time. |
What does one thing have to do with the other?
You realize this arguement sounds much like the multi-generational welfare blacks' excuses.. "Well, I MAY have had a slave as an ancestor, so the US OWES me".
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southernbubby
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Sun, Apr 01 2007, 2:07 am
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Who is to say that the blacks excuses are incorrect either? Before WWII frum communities supported themselves. There were many business owners. The only reason that these families left Europe was to rebuild here. Face it. The frum community cannot afford it's way of life. What should it give up? Chinuch, marriage, children? I am not even talking about excess gashmius. That is rapidly disappearing. There are probably more families that struggle than that live in luxury. Cheating may not be the answer but then, what is?
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