Why should dh and I work?

chocolate moose

Thu, Mar 29 2007, 5:01 pm

Besides the fact that DH and I got married with debt(credit card and yeshiva loans), he didn’t make very much for many years. When our son turned about 10 mos. old we started bouncing checks. There was no way I could stay home anymore at that point, and unless we wanted to live in a basement and count every spoonful of mayonnaise, I had to work full time and do to this day.

amother

Thu, Mar 29 2007, 9:17 pm

DefyGravity wrote:

I agree.
You can't walk around doing dangerous things just b/c H-shem decides when your number's up.

op here - Did I say anything about doing dangerous things? Rolling Eyes

Is not going to work considered dangerous? Rolling Eyes

DefyGravity wrote:

Of course I wouldn't say that her kids should work if money is tight. That's not what the OP is asking about and that's not what people are telling her to do.

I'm just irked that the OP seems to have some weird idea about how their parnassa is decreed.

What makes u think this is such a weird idea? Does it say anywhere that both have to work in order to earn how much it's bashert?

workingallthetime wrote:

what a "controversial" topic. as a working mom, it always irks me to hear my friends/neighbors tell me why they "can't" work, and then see them get tuition reduction and other breaks that I work my tail off to pay for.

It wasnt easy for me to work full time while I was pregnant, nursing, dealing with a sick kid, etc. but I did b/c financially my family couldnt get by on my husbands income alone (we could of if we didnt have to pay tuition, etc but thats for another thread).

This seems like such an illogical approach it almost angers me. I agree what one will have is prescribed on rosh hashana, but I dont think that means we should relax our efforts.

Good for you that u could work this hard but everybody's different. I, for one reason, don't have the physical koach to work my tail off and then come home take care of my family and still be a wife to my dh. Is this considered relaxing our efforts?

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

OP, why is it hard for you to go out and work? if you dont mind me asking

One reason I just mentioned and there's a couple of other ones too which I don't wish to discuss right now.

shoy18

Thu, Mar 29 2007, 9:32 pm

Money doesnt grow on trees, you cant just sit back and assume that hashem will just give you more money. We aren't suppose to wait for miracles, we must do our hishtadlus, and if you need more money and money is very tight look for a job, if you find one easily than obviously that is your hishtadlus, if you end up looking forever and not finding anything then maybe you were meant to stay home.

Flowerchild

Thu, Mar 29 2007, 10:21 pm

Quote:

Motek:
The question being asked is how a big a keili must one make?

and what are your thoughts? maybe you can give some relevant ideas.

OP I think that if money is tight you can try to work and see how it goes, see how much money you can bring in to help out, and see how it effects you and your family. if it doesnt work atleast you gave it a try, you did your part, it might make your husband happy to see you try. is he overwhelmed with work and tired, stressed? you can work this out by talking to him, and figuring out whats best for your family. if you trully do not and cannot work, fine, thats your prerogative and your choice. but remember if its really tight and your husband is doing the best he can to make money, dont complain just accept your lot in life and be happy with what you got. but if your unhappy and want change, god provided you with different outlets to help you out, you can put your part in and try if it doesnt work it doesnt work.

workingmom3

Fri, Mar 30 2007, 12:05 am

No one said its easy to work - I went to work because I had to . I stayed home with my 2 kids but when my third was born and we had huge tuition bills starting to come in , I felt it was my obligation to help my husband. He works hard and now so do I and BH things are much easier financially. Although let me add that my life is hectic trying to balance three kids and a job , but I dont regret it at all and I really do feel a sense of satisfaction.

So maybe you should try it out before you say you cant do it.

Piper

Fri, Mar 30 2007, 12:31 am

workingallthetime wrote:

Well, maybe some of them really can't work. I have an auto-immune disease; I can't work. But then again, I do all the cooking, cleaning (no cleaning lady), bill paying, kid schleping, laundry, groceries. DH is too tired after work to help with those things, but I manage it ok.

tzipp

Fri, Mar 30 2007, 12:53 am

I think the op needs to ask herself a few questions and answer honestly:

1. What level of materialism do you need to feel secure?
This varies so much- some people can feel fine with very little, everyone has different standards that they are used to.

2. How does your husband feel about the situation? How are your kids handling it? ( I guess this depends on how bad it is too). Your marriage should be a top priority, and if your kids are constantly worried about money, that can affect them.

In the end you should do what is best for your family. Whatever that is.

This got me thinking about he avodas perach in mitzrayim (with pesach coming up). The men did women's work, and the women did mens work. I guess this discussion shows that we are definitely still in galus!

Motek

Fri, Mar 30 2007, 11:40 am

DefyGravity wrote:

Of course I wouldn't say that her kids should work if money is tight. That's not what the OP is asking about and that's not what people are telling her to do.

Why "of course"? As I said, this was common practice. If a family needs the money, they need the money, right? What's your reasoning?

amother wrote:

My dh is so proud of me, he feels that were in it together.
after all arent we?

Maybe being "in it together" is being a morally supportive wife and not pressuring one's husband or whining about not having what he cannot provide.

Let us remember that in the kesuba, the husband is obligated to support his wife.

Why do some of you consider it waiting for a miracle when her husband is working?

Quote:

Does it say anywhere that both have to work in order to earn how much it's bashert?

This is the question! Nobody has answered it. I'd be interested in hearing source Torah sources for the answer.

shalhevet

Sat, Mar 31 2007, 3:29 pm

Ya'akov avinu asked Hashem to promise him that he would have 'lechem le'echol v'beged lilbosh' 'bread to eat and clothing to wear'. We are promised that if we do enough hishtadlus Hashem will provide what we need. Why shouldn't one spouse working be enough of a keli? Perhaps the answer is that those who feel both need to work, feel the need to buy all kinds of luxuries?

The fact that couple X work harder and earn more than couple Y does not mean anything. The brocho is not in your income but in if you have enough. People who do excessive hishtadlus might earn more but wind up with lots more expenses.

Motek

Sun, Apr 01 2007, 11:27 am

I asked my husband what he though of your question O.P. and he said that a couple is a unit, and what is designated on Rosh Hashana is for them as a unit, in fact, Chazal say that a husband's bracha in parnasa is through his wife and he should be sure to honor her etc.

My husband was quite sure that if you feel you cannot be a good wife and mother if you work, that you should not work.

He also mentioned part-time work, teaching for example, in which you would make a positive spiritual impact on others.

amother

Sun, Apr 01 2007, 7:19 pm

wow - all I can say is I hope that you dont sent your kids to my kids school - Its not easy for me to work easy, but I do b/c otherwise we would never be able to pay the $35,000 of tuition for my kids to be in school - that said, it really would bother me if someone who found it difficult to work unless Ch'v hospitalized or otherwise severly ill was getting a break and thereby requiring my tuition to increase again year after year -

just for the record - I have epstein barr virus (known to cause chronic fatigue syndrome) and go through terrible bouts where it is incredibly difficult to function, but somehow we do it.

no one said it was easy - such is life, unless you are willing to make do with much less, I suggest getting a job!

Marion

Mon, Apr 02 2007, 3:08 am

Like a lot of others here, I work. My DH can't hold down a full time job, for medical reasons as well as practical ones (my job pays better, but it's longer hours, so he has to make himself available to pick up the baby...). I too am exhausted at the end of the day, and have very little to give to DS and DH. We manage, because we HAVE TO.

OP, if you and DH (and family) can get by on what DH brings home without having to ask for loans or discounts from the community, even if you're not living extravagantly, then you're doing something right. If, however, the only reason you're keeping a roof over your head and food in your bellies is because the community can help you, then I think you need to reconsider going out to work, even if it's only part time.

Motek

Thu, Apr 05 2007, 11:33 am

amother wrote:

it really would bother me if someone who found it difficult to work unless Ch'v hospitalized or otherwise severly ill was getting a break and thereby requiring my tuition to increase again year after year - !

Absolutely no tuition board requires mothers to work unless they are hospitalized or severely ill.

Any school board that feels that a mother must work and have her children raised by people other than herself so that she can pay more tuition is not a school that has its chinuch priorities in order, in which case it's not a school which should be educating her children.

Tefila

Thu, Apr 05 2007, 12:01 pm

Quote:

But then I keep reminding myself that whatever is bashert for a person to earn that year that's how much he'll have.

So that means too that you can't can't complain if he cannot get you something that you feel that you need or want, or both since he cannot afford it.
If you are willing to live like that I say that is the ideal. Exclamation

What is not ideal is when women complain when their husbands who work hard trying to make a living don't make what seems enough Exclamation

.

I have seen this sad scenerio more then once!!, Eighter one has bitachon and accepts what he/she has or she too, should go out and work. Confused

amother

Thu, Apr 05 2007, 12:40 pm

it used to be that a man would work on the field while the women would be home raising her children.
well todays days I must say men are much more involved with the children then they used to be.
men are helping out at home and doing chored which normally a women would do , whether its bathing the kids, washing dishes, helping with laundry, doing the shopping.....the list goes on and on.
Im not saying all men help out at home, yet their involvement in the womens duties are very much so in this generation.

so for those who say that the women job is to be home with the kids and its the mans responsibility to bring home the dough, you must realize that today when life is so expensive a women can perhaps help out her husband bring in the bread...or matza actually.

it works both ways the husband goes that extra mile to help out at home and the women does the same and goes working part time to help him out.

everyone got their opion on this matter.
lets daven that the husband should be able to provide for his family and let the wife be home raising her precious children!!!

Motek

Thu, Apr 05 2007, 5:35 pm

amother wrote:

so for those who say that the women job is to be home with the kids and its the mans responsibility to bring home the dough, you must realize that today when life is so expensive a women can perhaps help out her husband bring in the bread...or matza actually.

You don't mention the most common situation which is non-family members taking care of babies, toddlers, and young children.

Ruchel

Thu, Apr 05 2007, 7:00 pm

Quote:

Any school board that feels that a mother must work and have her children raised by people other than herself so that she can pay more tuition is not a school that has its chinuch priorities in order, in which case it's not a school which should be educating her children.

Ditto… unless it’s the only school around. I hope these people have a choice of different schools!

Quote:

it used to be that a man would work on the field while the women would be home raising her children.

Often they would be in the fields too, while the baby would be with a sibling too young to help – or made to sleep with wine.