Cut Me Loose - By Leah Vincent. Anyone read it? Thoughts?

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BlueRose52

Fri, Jan 24 2014, 12:49 pm

I'm wondering if anyone read this book yet. I haven't gotten mine yet (on hold at the library), but would like to hear people's thoughts about her journey and her views on the Orthodox world. A few months ago, there was a thread about her Katie Couric appearance and there was some discussion regarding that.

How do you think outsiders' views of the community will be affected by it? Does her story seem exaggerated? Accurate? An outlier situation or reflective of widespread attitudes? Let's hear what you think!

PinkFridge

Fri, Jan 24 2014, 3:27 pm

Dang, too new to put on hold. I'll keep trying.

Isramom8

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 4:56 pm

An in-depth critique:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R.....lpful

STovah

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 9:05 pm

Ugh, I was disgusted by her essay in the Modern Love column in last week's NYT. I didn't realize she had a book out too.

PinkFridge

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 9:19 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

An in-depth critique:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R.....lpful

I had a feeling this was gong to be one of those books. But not having heard of it till now, and with no time to check out things too thoroughly, I still can't say I might not get it out given the chance. Though I only forced myself to read Unorthodox when the author was supposed to come town. And even then, I got to a point where I couldn't handle it and primarily skimmed.

amother

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 9:23 pm

I read her book. She is a good writer and has a very vivid imagination.

Unfortunately, she tries really hard to present her family/father/community as being an insular Chasidic community so it doesnt really work or add up. There are many gaps to her story and many unanswered questions. Some of the things that I questioned was-- how did she get into Brooklyn College when her so called Yeshivishe school does not approve of it? If she got a presidential scholarship from the college then they would have needed to see her transcripts to ensure that she had the grades for it so did they (Bais Yaakov of Manchester) somehow agree to send her transcripts to Brooklyn College? And if not, then how did she get accepted to Brooklyn with a full scholarship?

Furthermore, she writes in her book that yeshivishe girls come to New York to be teachers and secretaries but completely ignores the fact that Touro, Stern College, and even Brooklyn College has a ton of yeshivishe girls. Is she ignorant about this fact or is she outright just outright lying about it? Did she not notice the religious girls at Brooklyn College when she was a student there? Does she not know that there are Ultra-Orthodox professors who have advanced degrees and teach at Brooklyn College? She tries to say that some gender separated programs started after she left the community but she didnt leave that long ago and touro/stern has been around for a long time now so not sure why she omits/ignores that.

There were other things that baffled me about her story (I.e. having an affair with a Brooklyn College professor (not sure if any professor at Brooklyn College would risk his job/reputation to have an affair with a student) etc.) but I wont go into it now. Bottom line, I was impressed with her writing but overall I wondered what her real story was (if she even has a publishable story) instead of the sensationalized version of it.

amother

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 9:32 pm

amother wrote:

There were other things that baffled me about her story (I.e. having an affair with a Brooklyn College professor (not sure if any professor at Brooklyn College would risk his job/reputation to have an affair with a student) etc.) but I wont go into it now. Bottom line, I was impressed with her writing but overall I wondered what her real story was (if she even has a publishable story) instead of the sensationalized version of it.

I heard that a BY girl from my grade/school went to Brooklyn or Touro college (to long ago, my memory isnt perfect) and ended up marrying her professor who wasnt exactly religious to her community's standards.

I have not read the book yet.

amother

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 9:36 pm

amother wrote:

Could be but the Brooklyn College professor Leah mentions was a married man and a chairperson of a department. He had to have been really gutsy and arrogant to have risked his job, marriage, and professional reputation to have an affair with Leah Vincent. (not that its not possible but I would love to hear his side of the story before I believe it to be the truth mostly because of everything else that was questionable in her book.)

cookiecutter

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 9:36 pm

Isramom8 wrote:

An in-depth critique:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R.....lpful

I'm not sure I buy that as a critique. Obviously, there is some point at which a memoir becomes fiction - see James Frey - but all this review does is point to a thousand little quibbles about the details she chose to focus on and how they differed in different media, without anywhere suggesting that her story is false or is of no value.

I know some people in her family peripherally and I have a thoroughly positive opinion of them. I also understand that there is often a gap between the way actions were intended and the way they impact their targets. Just because her parents are kind people who are much too responsible to shuttle her off to New York with no one to lean on, does not mean that she cannot have felt she was shuttled off to New York with no one to lean on.

I understand that there is almost certainly an element of sensationalism in the book. The same way literature doesn't include waking up, using the restroom, brushing teeth, making breakfast, but focuses rather on the events that create a narrative; she likely emphasizes the abandonment and eliminates details that detract from that story. But that doesn't necessariliy make her story less real .

The review's author seems really excited to suggest at the end that Leah still feels close to the frum community, as though that is some kind of triumph. I never understand it when people say things like that, whether it's about the Weberman accuser or Pearlperry Reich or anyone else who left frumkeit but obviously still feels its pull. The reason is obvious. The frum world is where these people grew up, and is as inextricably part of them as their childhood homes would be if they grew up hippie or Italian or if they remained frum. It's not a badge of accomplishment when people feel drawn to remain near whatever sad excuse for family and friends they have after having been cast aside; nor is it a "gotcha" personal failing of the OTD person.

This review is representative of the obliviousness of some people in the frum community to a real problem and a real movement that it has spawned. The frum community is (to an extent) failing to provide a lifelong way of life and home for its children. For a while, it was easy to ignore people who went off the derech because they were falsely perceived as having always been misfits with academic, social, and family problems (as though that were an excuse) or they were just too caught up in gashmius and were thus unteachable. Now, it's becoming more obvious that the frum community intends to ignore them even when they are people with enough ability to take themselves from the streets of Brooklyn to Harvard, even when they choose public interest (she went to the Kennedy School, not Harvard Business School), even when they volunteer as a vocation to help others with less initiative and ability. I'm sure the author of this review feels she's poked enough holes in Leah Vincent's story, made enough suggestions about her likely emotional problems, to ignore the failings of the frum community. And I'm sure a substantial proportion of Imamothers will agree. But people who are willing to approach issues like this one objectively are not going to be so easily convinced.

BlueRose52

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 10:06 pm

amother wrote:

This doesn't sound right in the least bit. She has always identified her family as yeshivish.

MaBelleVie

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 10:10 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

This doesn't sound right in the least bit. She has always identified her family as yeshivish.

I don't think she means that Leah uses the term chasidic; rather, her description of her family's lifestyle is not consistent with mainstream yeshivish, and sounds a lot more like chasidic.

I've read most of her published work, and I've watched her on couric. I don't think there is anything I would gain from reading the book (although I've read reviews from both critics and readers).

amother

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 10:11 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

This doesn't sound right in the least bit. She has always identified her family as yeshivish.

Yes, she says that she is from a yeshivishe family no denial there. however, some of the things she says about it makes it seem as though she is more from an insular chasidishe community rather than an oot yeshivishe one (and I explained her college situation/story as an example of this pretentiousness).

amother

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 10:13 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

I don't think she means that Leah uses the term chasidic; rather, her description of her family's lifestyle is not consistent with mainstream yeshivish, and sounds a lot more like chasidic.

Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to express. Thank you.

naturalmom5

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 10:40 pm

Not another discontented Charedi chick
It's invariably always either kaching ( she wants to sell her book) or ouch !!
Usually a bit of both

bamamama

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 10:50 pm

cookiecutter wrote:

Quoting so I can like this post twice.

Also, I would add that two siblings in the same family can experience things very, very differently. So her experiences are her own and probably don't represent what you *imagine* them to have been.

BlueRose52

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 11:10 pm

I haven't read the book, so my thoughts so far are only about the stuff I read in the media so far (some of it directly from her), but it sounds to me like she does seem to somewhat inflate the adversity she had to face. For instance, until an hour ago, the image I had gotten from her account was that her parents basically kicked her out of their house, and abandoned her to be on her own. Sounds pretty bad. But in an article from today, she explains that they actually found her an apartment, paid the first month's rent, and even got her a job! They sure don't sound like such monsters to me. Similarly in the Couric interview she talks about what was most difficult for her was the loneliness of being on her own in NY and not knowing anyone. Um, yeah, so what? You know how many people go through that all the time? I'm not saying that's an easy thing, but every day hundreds of people come to NY not knowing anyone and struggle to get on their feet. That doesn't make you special. They'd give their left arm to have the first month's rent of a studio apartment paid for by their parents and be set up with a job!

That being said, one of her siblings has also stopped being frum and supposedly backs up her descriptions of her family and story entirely, so maybe the facts are all true, but she just experiences things as way worse than they really are. Meaning, even though her parents did set her up like that, to her maybe it truly did feel like being unceremoniously dumped on the curb.

bamamama

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 11:17 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

IDK. If the parents were the ones who were behind her leaving - as in, you have to leave and we will help you find and apt and pay the first month's rent for you but you HAVE TO leave - I can see how it would feel as though they kicked her out. I don't know if it went down like that or not. But this is where "spin" comes into play.

Quote:

Meaning, even though her parents did set her up like that, to her maybe it truly did feel like being unceremoniously dumped on the curb.

^yeah

BlueRose52

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 11:22 pm

I'm not disputing that they kicked her out, which I'm sure was really awful for her. But it seems like a gross misrepresentation to portray them as if they just left her on the street to fend for herself.

MaBelleVie

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 11:24 pm

Actually, I believe that being alone in a new city can be crushingly lonely. I know confident, outgoing people who almost fell into depression because of the challenges in that.

The thing is, I don't believe that she actually knew no one in NY. What yeshivish girl growing up in the US and attending camp and seminary reaches adulthood without knowing many many NYers? Presumably, along the way she was friends with other girls on the fringe- so even if you'll say she was shunned by yeshivish acquaintances (which I doubt too- she may paint her own family as extremely restrictive but I know that the larger yeshivish world is much more varied), did she truly have no one?

And that's the thing here. She constantly plays with the details in her story, embellishing and inventing. And it's expected that a memoir isn't fully accurate in its details. But these aren't details in the context of her story, they are its essence. And that's where she lost me.

BlueRose52

Sat, Jan 25 2014, 11:32 pm

MaBelleVie wrote:

Actually, I believe that being alone in a new city can be crushingly lonely. I know confident, outgoing people who almost fell into depression because of the challenges in that.

I have no doubt that it is indeed tremendously difficult. I acknowledged that. I just don't think that finding oneself lonely in the big city, struggling to make it, is so uniquely harrowing that it makes for any sort of special story. Countless people do this all the time and don't see their struggle as worth talking about. It just sounds like more inflating the adversity to garner our sympathy.

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