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Can a child grow out of ADHD or overcome it without meds?



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anuta




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Feb 28 2014, 8:20 am
My 7 year old son has been diagnozed with ADHD. Well at first after kindergarten he was diagnosed with ADHD inattentive type, but asked to come for a full eval after he is 7. Now he is in second grade and his school performance hasn't improved much.
He is very intelligent (high IQ according to prelim test results) but it seems like there are some things he cannot learn. All his teachers say he is "absent" in class while present, I.e. doesn't pay any attention most of the time. He is not hyperactive in school, but the evaluator noted he was constantly moving - so he is hyperactive but is able to sit in class and obey the teachers (albeit after being asked and prodded repeatedly).

I see some improvements in his performance while doing homework with him. I see some improvements in being able to concentrate slightly longer stretches of time. The improvements are too slow to really improve his school performance, but they are there. In first grade he was unable to repeat back three step directions. Now he can write down words I spell for him in three letter increments. He had a breakthrough in English reading and now he can read at grade level. (He still doesn't pay attention in class though). He never had problems with math interestingly enough. But he had huge difficulties learning letters and reading, in both languages. His Hebrew is terrible but recently I started noticing he is remembering some words (it used to be he didn't know ANY words, even repeated to him ad nauseum). I am hoping for a breakthrough there also eventially.

There are two things here, ADHD and school performance. Right now ADHD seems to be hindering his school performance in Hebrew subjects a lot. In English he is doing average but still way below his potential , with his IQ he should be the top student in class. I am not worried about him not being the top student in class, but I want him to at least do average and be able to do his Hebrew homework independently, andnot need constant prodding from the aide in class in order to start/continute/finish his work, because next year they won't have aides.

Is there hope for improvement without meds? I am willing to be patient and wait. My husband would never agree to meds, literally over his dead body. He is doing vision therapy for a convergence problem; he doesn't exercise at home though and once a week sessions are not enough. He shows extremely slow improvement there, most ppl already graduated at this point. But I think that improvement is just a reflection of the slow improvement I see in school work. I am hoping he will outgrow it somehow. Maybe mature. Maybe he is late to develop. Could it happen on its own?
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amother


 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 10:26 am
Yes, a child can grow out of ADHD as the brain matures. Many do. By that time he will have become a weak student when he could have done very well. He will have low self esteem and have problems with his social skills. He will have years of damage which you can't undo.

My dh and I were dead set against meds. No way. Not for our child. But then we listened to experts and people in chinuch. We weren't closed minded. In the end we were willing to try. And thank G-d we tried because our child is a different child. Instead of life being cruel, instead of being in trouble all the time, they are doing well.

Please, please do not think you are being kind to your child to wait. You are being cruel. Why doesn't your husband want to give meds? Because he's heard all kind of stigmas. Go and do your research. Consult with people who really know. And do what's in your child's best interest. Not what boosts your own ego.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 6:04 pm
My son is almost 8 and on Adderall. It has changed his life. He can focus better. He can learn better. He's making friends. No, life isn't all roses. We still have a lot of things to work on. But he's starting to see success. He's starting to feel good about himself. I was very reluctant to try meds and now I feel bad that I waited so long when there were issues already for years, that made life such a struggle for him. It was something that could have helped him but I was afraid to try until it got to the point that he was kicked out of school for behavior issues. Only then did I accept the meds. I wish so much I had been willing to try them earlier.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 6:49 pm
This is about the stigma of brain disorders. If your child, CV"S, had cancer, you'd be the first ones in there to get chemo for your kid. If he had, CV"S, diabetes, you'd be on top of his diet and giving him his insulin shots. Why is this any different? Your child is suffering. Don't you think he feels bad about his inability to pay attention, to perform the same as the other kids, academically? Don't you think he wants to be able to learn like the rest of his classmates? Do you think he wants to get into fights with other kids who call him names? Do you think he wants to be in constant trouble with his teachers? If you do not help him to get the help he needs now (and that might very well mean meds) then you are condemning him to a life of failure! Please. Think about what all this means to your child. You wouldn't deny him antibiotics for an infection. Why would you deny him the medicine that will make him able to able to have a normal life? As the grandmother of an incredibly bright, loving, wonderful grandson with ADHD who has seen him soar since he's been on medication, please, please, please, help your child to have such a wonderful life.
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cookiecutter




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 7:16 pm
I have a bit of a different perspective than the posters above. I agree with them that if you see the ADHD as a problem that you should not wait for it to go away on its own. IMO, the only way you will be able to maintain your sanity as a parent opposed to medicating is if you are fully on board with the notion that ADHD is not a disorder, it is simply a set of personality traits that is poorly suited for the modern classroom. If you are not waiting for him to change, but are willing to work with him to make the best of a difficult mismatch and appreciate the kochos that he most likely has as part of a holistic personality, then maaaybe you can avoid medicating. And it's also probably factually true.
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amother


 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 7:33 pm
A story is circulating about a rebbi who called his student’s parents and informed them that their son needed Ritalin as he was being very hyperactive during class time. The father replied and said, “I don’t think my son will take it.” The rebbi came up with a plan to make the child take it every day.
Every morning the rebbi would ask the child to make him a coffee, and as a result the child would get “a candy” aka Ritalin pill, as a reward.
Three months later at the child’s PTA, the rebbi informed the parents that their son was doing amazing and was much calmer in class, showing great results. He recommended carrying on with the Ritalin. The father replied; “My son told me that the first day he received the candy he did not
like it, but he didn’t want to show you a lack of hakaros hatov, so he decided to put it into your coffee… ever since!
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 8:12 pm
amother wrote:
Yes, a child can grow out of ADHD as the brain matures. Many do. By that time he will have become a weak student when he could have done very well. He will have low self esteem and have problems with his social skills. He will have years of damage which you can't undo.

My dh and I were dead set against meds. No way. Not for our child. But then we listened to experts and people in chinuch. We weren't closed minded. In the end we were willing to try. And thank G-d we tried because our child is a different child. Instead of life being cruel, instead of being in trouble all the time, they are doing well.

Please, please do not think you are being kind to your child to wait. You are being cruel. Why doesn't your husband want to give meds? Because he's heard all kind of stigmas. Go and do your research. Consult with people who really know. And do what's in your child's best interest. Not what boosts your own ego.

I agree with this post, in your case. It is possible to outgrow ADHD and treat it without medication. However, I have seen many children like OP is describing and he seems to be a prime candidate for medication. It sounds like he is near the beginning of what is very likely to be a dramatic downward spiral of school performance and self-esteem. He may not be able to express it or even be aware of it, but he is likely already experiencing a lot of frustration in school. Years of this kind of frustration do not tend to have great psychological effects. By the way, how is he doing socially?

My recommendation is that if you wish to avoid meds at this point, get started right away choosing an alternative technique to try. I suggest you look into dietary modifications first. Consider alternative therapies such as vitamin/supplements, essential oils (talk to imamother member Sparkle), exercise programs, whatever. With whatever you try, carefully monitor whether it is changing his behavior and in-class performance (not his ability to do his work when he's sitting alone with you at home. IN class. That's where the biggest problem is.) If you do not see significant improvement within a month or two, it's time to reconsider the pharmaceutical medications.

Based on what you're describing to me and similar students I have seen personally, I think it is possible you can make it without medication but I would STRONGLY advise you NOT to just "be patient and wait."

ADHD medication is not a life sentence. You can use it to help you get through these challenging developmental years while integrating in a regular school, and then experiment with weaning him off of them. Meanwhile, he will have gained many skills and strategies that can help him maintain his performance without medication. After puberty is a good time to begin considering this; if it doesn't work then, you can still try again in young adulthood. At older ages, even kids who continue to have ADHD symptoms may be able to reduce their medication use to an "as-needed" basis when things get extra difficult while being OK on typical days.

ETA: There is also a strong element of habit - even if the brain functioning part of ADHD is outgrown, a person can continue to suffer for years from the habits they formed while they were "waiting." This is NOT a small deal.


Last edited by seeker on Sat, Mar 01 2014, 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 8:18 pm
amother wrote:
A story is circulating about a rebbi who called his student’s parents and informed them that their son needed Ritalin as he was being very hyperactive during class time. The father replied and said, “I don’t think my son will take it.” The rebbi came up with a plan to make the child take it every day.
Every morning the rebbi would ask the child to make him a coffee, and as a result the child would get “a candy” aka Ritalin pill, as a reward.
Three months later at the child’s PTA, the rebbi informed the parents that their son was doing amazing and was much calmer in class, showing great results. He recommended carrying on with the Ritalin. The father replied; “My son told me that the first day he received the candy he did not
like it, but he didn’t want to show you a lack of hakaros hatov, so he decided to put it into your coffee… ever since!

This is not helpful to OP. It is likely not even true. The point of this story was that the child's behavior is subject to the perceptions and provocations of the adult, and teachers should not be quick to label the child with a problem before examining what they can do to impact the situation.

OP's child does not appear to be unfairly targeted by teachers. He seems from the description to be genuinely struggling in a variety of areas that could likely be improved through a specific, well-researched treatment.

And I am not quick to push medication on anyone. People who hang out on this forum enough will notice that I am up on all the alternatives and very supportive of non-medical methods for ameliorating learning and behavior difficulties. But then there are times when someone is very likely to gain significant benefits with medication, AND stands to lose a lot without it, and in those cases it's a crying shame to throw meaningless and dubious anecdotes at them to make them feel even more uncomfortable with having to make this decision.
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granolamom




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Mar 01 2014, 9:52 pm
amother wrote:
A story is circulating about a rebbi who called his student’s parents and informed them that their son needed Ritalin as he was being very hyperactive during class time. The father replied and said, “I don’t think my son will take it.” The rebbi came up with a plan to make the child take it every day.
Every morning the rebbi would ask the child to make him a coffee, and as a result the child would get “a candy” aka Ritalin pill, as a reward.
Three months later at the child’s PTA, the rebbi informed the parents that their son was doing amazing and was much calmer in class, showing great results. He recommended carrying on with the Ritalin. The father replied; “My son told me that the first day he received the candy he did not
like it, but he didn’t want to show you a lack of hakaros hatov, so he decided to put it into your coffee… ever since!


I've heard this one too. I'm so bothered by it even though I know it isnt true. why did the father allow this to continue? on what planet do teachers give out ritalin in school? and if they do, on what planet does one give a child ritalin and not supervise what he does with the pill? how did the rebbe not notice the changes in his own behavior and how do we attribute his positive regard of the child to taking ritalin? if the rebbe was not suffering from adhd, wouldnt it have the opposite effect and act as a stimulant? would a child's dose even do anything for an adult?
I'll stop now.
I get the point of the story, but the reality is that kids must function in schools and in classrooms with teachers who may or may not know how/care to best understand the child.
I think that meds for adhd are not the same thing as chemo (the life threatening thing, you know) and there is no right/wrong answer. I know some adults who were kids with adhd before ritalin and they turned out fine. I know some other adults who now have adult adhd.

in reference to the comment that the child should be 'at the top of his class' due to his high IQ score, that would assume that 1)the other kids scored lower and 2)IQ scores tell you how well a child will perform in a classroom. I would take IQ scores with a huge grain of salt. I have one child who scores in the gifted ranges and he is well below his peers and another who scored relatively low on IQ tests and yet is in the top 10% of his class. go figure.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Mar 02 2014, 9:59 am
Regarding the earlier post about a child with ADHD just having a nature that isn't well suited to modern classroom settings, I want to say that I homeschooled my child davka for that reason. And WOW what a difference once he went on meds!! I used multisensory hands-on engaging activities tailored to him but it didn't help so much. He had such trouble focusing for more than a couple of minutes. Once he went on the meds he could focus so much better, and his self-esteem just shot up.
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anuta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 02 2014, 6:34 pm
I am open-minded about meds, although if there are other ways I'd rather try them first, and I would accept an average below his potential performance at school as long as he is able to keep up on grade level.
To the poster who commented about IQ - even before his testing (by the way final comprehensive testing results are not in yet, but preliminary are) - all his teachers told me the same thing, that he is very smart and is performing below where they would expect him to be.

But my husband is not open to meds at all. There is no way to convince him. He is very ideological about holistic medicine, I know he is not going to move on that.
He did however bring our son to naturalistic pediatrician who gave him some homeopatic medicine and a special mix of probiotics. Improvements in Hebrew that I saw at home came after that. My son thinks he is doing better in Hebrew because of the homeopatic spray in the mouth twice a day. He is also willing to do any alternative therapies that can potentially help.

To the poster who said my son is on downward spiral - in English subjects he has actually improved this year. Last year he was not quite performing on the grade level, this year he is. In Hebrew - I don't think there is any lower he can go, he can only go up from where he is. Well, he reads, but not well, and he used to not understand a word he read - now he can translate some words and even sentences. This has happened in the last month or so.
His English breakthrough was also recent - this summer he had to be forced to read, and read slowly and badly. Now he reads chapter books to himself.
.
Since my husband will not do meds, please don't try to convince ME to give it a try. I cannot do it without his consent and I cannot convince him to do it, nobody can, I know him. He'd rather put our son in public school where the load is half of what it is in Jewish school than put him on meds.

He has friends and is well liked. there was a period of time this year he didn't have friends but it was by his own initiative
he has no discipline problems in school
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 02 2014, 6:52 pm
Glad to hear things are looking up. I suggest you continue doing everything you can holistically - are you already eating an all-natural diet without artificial sugars?

By "downward spiral" I did not mean that he will know less than he does now. It is natural that he now knows more than he did last year. But even with progress, the gap between the kid with ADHD and his peers tends to widen, and the overall situation gets worse. Maybe you really are experiencing some kind of maturational breakthrough and this will not happen to you. It is surely possible. I am just reporting what I have seen in my experience with children similar to yours, though of course every one is different. What I see is that 1. kids who are a little fidgety and spaced out in second grade, with no intervention are often completely inattentive by fifth grade and have no clue what subjects they're learning or things like that, and the fidgeting escalates as well in ways that disrupt teachers and classmates. 2. kids who are a little behind in kriah in second grade can't follow chumash in third grade, mishnayos in 5th grade, gemara in 7th grade, and feel like a flop. Halevai this should not happen to your son, I am just telling you what to worry about. If you feel that his progress is satisfactory and he is not falling behind, you're the one on the front lines and you can trust your judgment. But this is what to look out for.

Regarding IQ, it is true that this is not a meaningful measure in many ways. But even if you as a parent are satisfied with passing grades and with the progress that is made with monumental effort, you do not know what effect it has on the child who innately feels that he can do better and isn't. The sense of chronic underachievement can follow a person through adulthood and lead to depression and that kind of thing.

Again, I'm no prophet and it's totally plausible that what you're doing is working well for your child. But I just feel that I have to share what I have seen. I have seen kids have some improvement from behavioral and alternative therapies without meds, but I have never seen anyone cured without scarring by "wait and see."
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anuta




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 02 2014, 7:47 pm
seeker, I understand what you are saying. It sounds like you work with children, are you a teacher?

I am not in front lines. I am not with him in the classroom. I just do Hebrew homework with him, and honestly, his second grade Hebrew homework is too hard for me (I haven't gone to Jewish school and my Hebrew is almost nonexistent).. He has no homework in English subjects (almost never), and when he does, he does it independently, oh miracle of miracles!
And in second grade, he is already badly behind in Hebrew. Maybe I am not being realistic, but I just keep hoping or believing that once his mental problem is solved or improved, he will catch up in no time.
My daughter, his sister, came into the same school a year ago from a school with weaker hebrew curriculum, was behind that year needing extra help(in third grade), now she is one of the best students in her class in fourth grade. I immigrated to America at the age of 17, applied to colleges half a year after arrival, my English was bad, and graduated on top of my major from an Ivy League university. I see how an intelligent person with no attention issues can overcome and catch up . So I keep believing that if my son manages to overcome his disability, he will be able to catch up even from behind.

Our diet is pretty good, but we do have desserts on Shabbat, occasional ice cream, and kids do eat commercial cereals (I buy cereals with less than 10 g of sugar per serving , preferably less than 5 like plain cheerios, but they are not sugar-less; and the ones that have closer to 10 g of sugar like granolas we only use for garnish, I.e. most of the bowl is cheerios with some granola on top, or on top of yogurt). When I cook oatmeal for them I do add a bit of sugar or honey, not too much, maybe a tablespoon per two - three servings. I don't buy flavored instant oatmeal because it is too sweet. Kids do eat vanilla yougurt (big tubs from Trader joes) which has added sugar. I can probably mix half plain half vanilla and they still will eat it. We don't do anything with artificial sweeteners. We buy organic dairy products (except cheese) and organic fruits and veggies, at least try for the dirty dozen organic ones.
I cook without margarine and don't use prepared broths or soup mixes.... nothing with MSG or hydrogenated oils.
This son in question actually has better diet than his siblings, he eats veggies better and he likes them, he lately has been enjoying carrots and tomatoes and cucumbers for his afterschool snacks... he also loves meat..
I know it is best for him to have no sugar at all but it will have to be for the whole family... I am not prepared for that yet and I honestly don't think it will make a large enough difference for him... Of course I can try and see, but then I'll have to ask his teachers if they see improvement since my home observations don't matter so much. His Hebrew teacher would only notice the improvement of the type when he is suddenly participatign in class. Now, from not understanding a word she is saying, to fully participating - in a month or so - even the most effective therapy won't lead to that.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Mar 02 2014, 8:02 pm
Yes, I do work as a learning specialist both in and out of schools. I also had some personal experiences with learning difficulties which give me some insight into "my" kids, though I also need to be careful not to project my own feelings onto them!

If your homework interactions are that limited, then listen closely to what the teachers are telling you. Don't be afraid to ask questions, and to also talk to other parents or teachers - sometimes you do learn that a particular teacher's style affects the child's functioning or their perception of it. Get a good picture of how much his problems are interfering with his participation in class.

It is true that a person can catch up very quickly when the circumstances are right. A bright person can acquire a lot of knowledge in a short amount of time. IF, and it doesn't necessarily happen to everyone but it is very common, IF there are emotional effects those are much, much, much, much, much harder to "catch up" on. It is actually not that uncommon for a person who did poorly throughout grade school to become a sudden success in college or business, because the style and skills needed are very different. However, succeeding in adult life may not be enough to undo years of stress. Again, there's no point in trying to predict the future, but please keep a close eye on your son's emotional well-being.

I have not yet achieved guru status in the health and nutrition field, lol. It sounds like you are already better off than most people in that department. Still, you may wish to consult with the real diehards to learn where there may be room for improvement. In addition to that, since you are interested in natural remedies and not pharmaceutical, there is a whole world of nutritional supplements, herbal potions, essential oils, and whatnot - I can't vouch for their specific effectiveness but these are things you can research as alternatives to try. Just make sure to do careful trial and error - pinpoint the behaviors you want to change and track them carefully so you can stop any treatment that either doesn't work or has the wrong effect.
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