living in Israel | Imamother

amother

Wed, May 16 2007, 9:27 am

My cousin married an Israeli boy and b4 he even agreed to go out with her he needed to have a promise that he will get an apartment in Yerushalayim. My cousin has no father so of course my father had to pay for it. He was told that all of the good boys in Israel demand this and this is the price to pay for a good boy. He demanded only Yerushalayim, he will not live else where. I don't think any Americans demand a house b4 they even get engaged.

Another thing, if my father paid for her apartment, is there something wrong if he sends his own kids for two years to Yerushalayim, or are we the spoiled brats that have to stay in America and let the Israeli's make their demands?

amother

Wed, May 16 2007, 12:40 pm

suomynona wrote:

I mentioned this discussion to my husband and he had a few points to add -

1) similar to what I said, most of the Americans who move here for 2 years after marriage come to e"y for the sole reason of continuing to go to Rav X's shiur (in the Mir, let's say) for 2 more years - the same shiur they went to when they were bachurim - before they have to go to work.

2) it would be practically impossible for one of these Americans to get accepted into a decent paying Israeli kollel.

3) he couldn't understand how Israelis dare complain about the "spoiled" Americans who supposedly pressure their parents into giving them money they can't afford. Among Israeli chareidim, it's a given that the parents will buy an apartment for the couple. Among Americans, it's not a given at all that the parents will help the couple buy a house. So even if the Israeli couple lives outside yerushayim, and even if some of the mortgage is left up to the couple to pay, the sum total that the Israeli parents are dishing out is still more money than America parents give to support their children for a few years. And relatively speaking to their income, the Israeli parents are giving much more that they don't have. Since most Israeli chareidim don't have regular well-paying jobs, and most Americans do, even if they are not wealthy.

And Shalhevet, I will add that it's almost impossible for an American women to find a job here that will cover even a fraction of living ex[penses, at any standard.

I hate to disagree but what about citybook, matrix etc.

smiley:)

Wed, May 16 2007, 12:53 pm

Nope... heeeeere I am. Just feeling like this can't carry on much longer!!! I walked up the steps to my apartment and needed about a 10 minute rest afterwards! I am convinced I'll give birth either on a Fri night or Shavuot bc my birthing coach can't come then! It's all good!
Tomorrow my parents come in.
Hey, I should SMS someone here if I give birth. I have a feeling I wont make it back to the boards for a while. We'll see....
Truth is I might not be home for shavuot anyway but I havent decided yet.

amother

Thu, May 17 2007, 10:21 am

Quote:

I hate to disagree but what about citybook, matrix etc.

I will tell you, I work for citybook and whereas I am not charedi, but 99% of the women are, that is a perfect example of a company where a charedi woman can work (there are two men in the office) and feel comfortable. we were trained specifically to work there. its a great aveira there.

Quote:

And Shalhevet, I will add that it's almost impossible for an American women to find a job here that will cover even a fraction of living expenses, at any standard.

And many Israeli women don't either. So do you know what they do? They take any job they can find - a helper in a gan, a metapelet, a cashier in a supermarket - as long as it is worth it for them vis a vis childcare. They are not ashamed with what they do as long as it is enabling their husbands to learn.

so true. you take whatever job you can so that you are able to support yourself. I was a mitapelet for a while b/c that was all I was able to find. no job is demeening. think of it this way, the streets of jerusalem (or anywhere) have to be cleaned or else we would be walking in grossness, and so the cleaners that come out at night, they are essential to the existence of jerusalem...............

nylon

Thu, May 17 2007, 1:57 pm

Marion wrote:

I don't know where my reply went, but keep in mind that a lot of the wives of these American students are not actually legally allowed to work while they're here.

Yes, many students don't/won't make aliya for various reasons and are only in Israel on student visas which mean the spouse can't work. I believe this also creates insurance issues--the couple can't use regular kupat cholim and have to budget for private insurance.

suomynona

Thu, May 17 2007, 5:03 pm

nylon wrote:

Marion wrote:

I don't know where my reply went, but keep in mind that a lot of the wives of these American students are not actually legally allowed to work while they're here.

You can use kupat cholim on a student visa. Almost everyone I know (who are here on student visas) is on Meuchedet. We just have to pay for it.

TorahMom48

Thu, May 31 2007, 11:02 am

these shtusim are unacceptable yet so prevalent in many parts of the frum olam, and don't say there are not similar shtussim in the US and so on. They make a mockery of the shiduch world and interfere seriously with shiduchim, maybe this is the wrong place but why do certain communities tolerate these awful things?

Quote:

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Jun 05 2007, 8:26 am

Motek wrote:

I read this:

The median annual household income in the US in 2006 was $46,000, compared to the median Israeli income in 2005 which was $25,353 (based on shekel conversion rate of 4.00 shekels to the dollar).

but the overall cost of living in israel is lower than that of the cost of living in america.....

you rarly see ppl with two cars and ppl just have less STUFF in general, as I have seen....

TorahMom48

Fri, Jun 08 2007, 6:54 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

Quote:

Motek wrote:
I read this:

The median annual household income in the US in 2006 was $46,000, compared to the median Israeli income in 2005 which was $25,353 (based on shekel conversion rate of 4.00 shekels to the dollar).

but the overall cost of living in israel is lower than that of the cost of living in america.....

you rarly see ppl with two cars and ppl just have less STUFF in general, as I have seen....

shabbat you are correct, also you don't need to have the fanciest house on the block to impress your neighbors and stuff like that, I'm not saying competing with the Jones (er cohen's) does not exist but it is so much less than in chul - also with certain exceptions like cars and gas, things here usually cost much less, factor in health care and yeshiva tuition and you are doing really well.

and one last thought: motek youre comparison was dollar to 4:1 while the dollar has fluctuated a bit in recent times, and more than that where were your statistics from I'd be interested to see the fgures?

If by any chance they were based on salary, a base salary means little here with all the tosephot. (extras)

Marion

Fri, Jun 08 2007, 7:27 am

TorahMom48 wrote:

shabbatiscoming wrote:
If by any chance they were based on salary, a base salary means little here with all the tosephot. (extras)

That's assuming you GET tosaphot. My last job I got base salary + transportation (required by law); that's it. I get more now, but still come home with less money at the end of the month, so benefits are not the end all and be all.

TorahMom48

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 1:38 pm

I agree it's still less even w/tosephot but they definately help

and especially if we are talking about families with kids both the cost of living and education usa vs israel I think it ends up evening out if not being better here, or course one might not have as big and fancy a house or car. but hay hashem is closer!