Home

Peer Pressure
1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

View latest: 24h 48h 72h


indianamom4




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 31 2005, 11:21 pm
My daughter is almost 7 years old and she is a very happy kid. She does well in school and has lots of friends. She is usually a leader, I guess that happens from being the oldest, but there is one girl in her class that she gets very intimidated by. They consider themselves to be best friends.
The problem is that she always wants to do whatever this girl tells her, and if I tell her something else she gets very upset.
For example, she wanted to invite a friend over on shabbos afternoon. I suggested another girl in her class who she and this other girl are good friends with. she told me that since her best friend is away for shabbos, then she is not allowed to invite over the other one. that is what her best frined told her. I told her that she is still allowed to play with the other girl, but she was adamant that she did no t wand to invite her.
Another example: The girl that she is friends with is the daughter of one of the Rabbis in the community. She is one of many children and therefore everything she says is IT! One day my daughter came home from school and told me that whe doesnt want to wear any skirts with slits, a fly, or tush pockets! I told her that I would sew up the slits, but it is very difficult for us to buy tzniusdik skirts here and there is nothing wrong with zippers and pockets!
Well, today she flew off the handle before school started that the only skirt clean is nt ever tznius!
she said that this girl will make fun of her if she wears such a skirt.
what should I do?
I know this is really long, but I have no idea.
and it isnt as if we are so modern! my husband is a rebbe in a day school and learning in kollel!
what happened to my confident daugher? Confused
Back to top

chavamom




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 31 2005, 11:52 pm
I can so relate to the problem! My oldest daughter has a friend who considers my daughter to be her 'best friend'. When they were in first grade, this girl set my daughter up to do a bunch of things and it was really a problem. The teachers noticed this girl putting my daughter up to things that were very out of character and encouraging her to be mean to other girls that wanted to play with her. My daughter b"H gets along well with most of the girls, but this other child does not, so I think she was jealous and wanted to keep my daughter to herself (she would tell her 'we are BEST friends and ONLY friends').

One thing that helped was that the teachers were involved. They arranged that they didn't sit next to one another and when partners or groups were made that they were separate. The next year, we also requested that they be in different classes. We talked with our daughter and set down ground rules about how much and how often she could play with this friend. It really helped. Unfortunately, the other girl still doesn't have other friends (and is an only child) and her mother would encourage the whole 'best friend' shtick. But at this point, they are 9 and my daughter socializes with the entire class, so it worked out for her.
Back to top

indianamom4




 
 
 


Post  Tue, May 31 2005, 11:59 pm
thanks for the advice. I dont think that this girl is so terrible, I think that my daughter needs to understand that she doenst always need to listen to what other kids say and take it as the absolute emes! she refused to say the word "x-mas" because this girls told her that it is an aveirah. I told her thatit isnt an aveirah but that some people are makpid not to say it bust she refused to beleive me or my husband- who is a rabbi!
she also is a bit of a nervous personality and she worries a lot. I think she worries that if she doesnt listen then this girl will not want to be her friend
Back to top

chavamom




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jun 01 2005, 12:11 am
LOL - one of my sons had a friend who told him it is assur to say church or easter and you have to say 'smirch' and 'shmeaster'. Who were we, his parents, to tell him otherwise?
Back to top

Tefila




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jun 01 2005, 2:20 am
The only thing I guess u can do is tell u'r daughter or ask her a question "Does the other girl ever listen to her. Or is she always the one who has to listen. Best friends share advice but don't boss one into listening the whole time. Otherwise she is just another mummy or teacher but not a best friend". Hatzlacha hope this works somewhat Exclamation
Back to top

indianamom4




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jun 01 2005, 10:46 pm
Chavamom! Great story Exclamation
By the way, she also told my sister-in-law's babysitter that she isnt allowed to say her name-Kristina!
Back to top

TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jun 29 2005, 11:56 pm
chavamom wrote:
LOL - one of my sons had a friend who told him it is assur to say church or easter and you have to say 'smirch' and 'shmeaster'. Who were we, his parents, to tell him otherwise?


This is something we try to do too, avoid saying names of Avodah Z., or their "choges" and observances. It says(Mishpatim 23:13) "shem elokim acheirim lo tazkiru...lo yishama al picho" Thou shalt not mention the name of foreign gods, it should not be heard-(even) from the [gentile]! - through you! Rashi comments that even by entering a partnership with a [gentile] who will then swear in the name of his avodah zarah, it comes out that the Jew caused that the name of the Avodah Zorah was mentioned!

And in Devarim, Parshas Re'eh 12:3 V'eibadetem es shemom - You should destroy their name from that place - Rashi comments: to call them with disgraceful names. Beis Galia- House of revelation one should call it Beis Caria - the buried (b'grubene) house. Ein Kol - The Eye of All one should call Ein Kotz - the Thornful Eye.

Indiana mom, I don't know if in general your daughter's connection to this girl is something you are interested in, but it seems to me that your daughter may just have a very spiritual nature. She is eager to accept whatever mitzvos, or new hiddurim that she is picking up from others, because she is so attuned to ruchnius. BH she is not picking up negative things from this or other friends, only yiras Shomayim! That is something very special, and iyh through the years will give you tremendous nachas, if you don't try to suppress it.
You might understandably feel a bit hurt because someone is "better" than you, the Rabbi and Rebbetzin. Not so . We all have what to learn from each other. "Who is truly wise, one who learns from every person.(Avos 4:1)I have what to learn from you, you can learn from me..."mikol m'lamdai hiskalti" I have learned from all my teachers.
Back to top

chavamom




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 12:09 am
S'Y - I understand that there is such an inyan, but we have non-frum people over on a regular basis, sometimes with their non-Jewish spouses even (dh is a kiruv rabbi). We had to train our children not to say things like '[gentile]', 'shmeaster' and such b/c it is alienating to people who are not frum. Sorry, but it doesn't fly in our world.

True story - when we first moved to the US, my 4 year old son was staring at the non-Jewish wife (Reform convert) of a man my dh was learning with. He suddenly blurts out "YOU'RE A [gentile]". Um, let's just say it was not a good kiruv move, even though the wife found it funny, her husband did NOT.
Back to top

TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 2:09 am
One more source: Matos 32:39 "v'es Nevo v'es Baal Meon, Musabos shem: Rashi explains that nevo and baal meon were names of Avodah Zara and the Emorites called their cities by the names of their deities, but when the Bnei Reuven received those territories, they changed the names to other ones, which is the meaning of musabos shem.

chavamom wrote:
S'Y - I understand that there is such an inyan, but we have non-frum people over on a regular basis, sometimes with their non-Jewish spouses even (dh is a kiruv rabbi). We had to train our children not to say things like '[gentile]', 'shmeaster' and such b/c it is alienating to people who are not frum. Sorry, but it doesn't fly in our world.


Chavamom, I really respect you and your husband for the very important work, Avodas HaKodesh that you are doing. Smile You are involved and experienced and therefore sensitive to the people you are working with and their possible reactions. So I'm not being judgmental, but I do think there is a way to be careful not to say words connected to avodah zarah without getting confrontational.

One example I'm thinking of are the chabad shluchim who live in places that has the prefix St., pronounced saint. Since we don't want to attribute saintliness to the clergy these places are named for I.e. giving credence or is it credit? to a"z, us chabadniks substitute S. for that prefix. ie. S. Diego, S. Monica, S. Francisco, S. Paul, Minn.

I heard that the Rebbe was very pleased when he received a letter from the Shliach in Minnesota, with the return adress listed as Twin Cities, Minn.( Minneapolis and S. Paul are twin cities. the shliach lives in S. Paul.) The Shluchim in S. Monica call it Simcha Monica! There is Petersburg in Russia, (leave out the St!) In fact, this city figures in alot of the written Chassidic history, being the place where the Alter Rebbe ( Rabbi Schneur Zalman the Baal HaTanya) was imprisoned. In all the written and spoken accounts and references of this epoch, in the sichos of the Lubavitcher Rebbeim, the city is referred to as Peterburg.

LOL LOL the school I went to, Beis Rivka used to be on "church" Avenue, corner Bedford. Some of us made a point of referring to its adress as Bedford, rather than the other.
Back to top

sarahd




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 3:03 am
SaraYehudis wrote:
It says(Mishpatim 23:13) "shem elokim acheirim lo tazkiru...lo yishama al picho" Thou shalt not mention the name of foreign gods,


We read this as "shem elohim acherim...", since we don't want to imply that these "other gods" have any kedusha, ch"v. Elokim is the word we use for Hashem because we don't say His name for anything but devorim shebikdusha.
Back to top

sarahd




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 3:06 am
In regard to referring to S. Francisco and S. Diego, I would think it would make more sense to refer to them as San F. and San D. Otherwise, you're mentioning the names of these "saints", which is what you just said one ought not to do.
Back to top

TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 10:00 am
sarahd wrote:
In regard to referring to S. Francisco and S. Diego, I would think it would make more sense to refer to them as San F. and San D. Otherwise, you're mentioning the names of these "saints", which is what you just said one ought not to do.



Practically speaking, such an adress would be hard to find, no? Rolling Eyes Confused
Actually, when you take off the word saint, these names alone have no indication of Avodah zora or issur, they are just ordinary names. It's the word saint in front of it, implying that there is holiness associated with it that turns it into something connected with avodah zara.
Back to top

gryp




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 10:11 am
Quote:
We read this as "shem elohim acherim

sarahd, I always had this question, because when I learned chumash in elementary, my Lubavitch teachers would always say "elokim" and told us that even though its avodah zara we still dont say Hashem's name for nothing. then I had some not-Lub teachers who would say it the other way and tell us we should do that.
I doubt this is a Lubav/not-Lubav thing but thats just the way I learned it.
so we are careful to say elokim anyway even when referring to other gds.

there are other times in chumash where it says Hashem's name but doesnt refer to Hashem, ie. "my master." even then we were careful not to say it because it is Hashem's name.
Back to top

TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 10:14 am
sarahd wrote:
SaraYehudis wrote:
It says(Mishpatim 23:13) "shem elokim acheirim lo tazkiru...lo yishama al picho" Thou shalt not mention the name of foreign gods,


We read this as "shem elohim acherim...", since we don't want to imply that these "other gods" have any kedusha, ch"v. Elokim is the word we use for Hashem because we don't say His name for anything but devorim shebikdusha.


Now I've really labeled myself as a "chochom", but I'll reply to your first post second... Wink Yes of course, but.... for some reason it seems to be actual practice( maybe around here) that we still (at least pronounce it) as elokim. Not sure why, but I once did come across an answer, just don't remember. Now I'm intrigued, and will have to find out.
Back to top

Motek




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 11:19 am
RG wrote:
Quote:
We read this as "shem elohim acherim

sarahd, I always had this question, because when I learned chumash in elementary, my Lubavitch teachers would always say "elokim" and told us that even though its avodah zara we still dont say Hashem's name for nothing. then I had some not-Lub teachers who would say it the other way and tell us we should do that.


nothing to do with Lub. not-Lub.
some are particular about saying "Elokim" even when it refers to avoda zara, some aren't

Quote:
there are other times in chumash where it says Hashem's name but doesnt refer to Hashem, ie. "my master." even then we were careful not to say it because it is Hashem's name.


example?
Back to top

gryp




 
 
 


Post  Thu, Jun 30 2005, 1:47 pm
I remember learning it in elementary school and our teacher (not-Lubav)told us we should say the word ado- "my master" the way Hashem's name is pronounced. none of us wanted to because we felt very strange doing that especially when we already learned in years before that even when referring to other gds we say elokim. I think we just decided to say "adoni" instead even though we knew we were reading it wrong.
but I dont remember where it is, maybe one day ill come across it. it could be that one was somewhere in Navi and not in Chumash.
Back to top

TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jul 01 2005, 9:45 am
RG wrote:
I remember learning it in elementary school and our teacher (not-Lubav)told us we should say the word ado- "my master" the way Hashem's name is pronounced. none of us wanted to because we felt very strange doing that especially when we already learned in years before that even when referring to other gds we say elokim. I think we just decided to say "adoni" instead even though we knew we were reading it wrong.
but I dont remember where it is, maybe one day ill come across it. it could be that one was somewhere in Navi and not in Chumash.


It might have been in Vayeirah 18:3 when Avraham says "My master, please do not pass over your servant" when he was adressing the 3 angels, then why in the singular because Rashi says it was adressed to the head of the group.

But according to the 2nd pshat of Rashi it does mean Kodesh, and Avraham was asking Hashem, who was visiting Avraham to be mevaker choleh, not to leave, while he ran to greet the angels. (Like just one second,I'll be right back!) Rashi says from here we learn that hachnosas orchim is greater than receiving the Divine presence.( Since Avrohom interrupted his audience with Hashem for hachnosas orchim.)

This brings back memories... I once gave a model lesson on this pasuk, and was wondering how to read this pasuk to the third graders. I asked my teacher and characteristically she told me ( I could have expected it from this teacher, who is predominantly rational) just read the word as chol, not kodesh. I did, and heard the kids gasp as I read the pasuk. I knew for sure then that I had done the wrong thing, and missed out on a great lesson too. (Gedolah hachnosas orchim....)

Many times afterward I thought of the story of the Alter Rebbe(Rabbi Schneur Zalman, the Baal HaTanya) how he exposed the Maskil (agent of the HasKalah movementr)Shimon HaKofer. This Shimon, who gave a very pious appearance was trying to infiltrate amongst the Chassidim to do his damage. He was trying to find out as much as possible about the leader of the Chassidim and went into Yechidus with the AR. He claimed to be a melamed from Zamut.

The AR asked him, how do you teitsch the posuk, Vayecherad Yitzchok (toldos 27:33) when you are teaching your students? He said according to the first explanation of Rashi (a term of wonderment). The AR asked and what about the 2nd explanation (that he saw the Gehinnom open underneath him)? Shimon answered that he does not teach that because the children are very young, and sensitive and it is too traumatic for them to hear about the Gehinnom at this age.

The AR put his head down and meditated and then proclaimed: When someone comes from Vilna and says he comes from Zamut, and is destroying Jewish youth, but says he is a melamed, he is lying and therefore the Gehinnom is opened up beneath him.How many souls did you destroy already? You have been caught with heresy and "all who come there will not return"....
Back to top

TzenaRena




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jul 01 2005, 10:11 am
RG, can you imagine , it dawned on me that I chose not to convey an inyan of Yiras Shomayim, and what did that say about my own Yiras Shomayim when I made this choice. It was a painful revelation that I was not as strong as I should be. I felt bad for having had a question to begin with.
Back to top

gryp




 
 
 


Post  Fri, Jul 01 2005, 10:18 am
SaraYehudis, I hear what youre saying, but I dont think youre like the maskil. you werent teaching that pasuk to the class, probably if you were you would have taught the second explanation about gehinnom. did you ever consider not telling a class you were teaching about gehinnom because theyre young? probably not.
and the class was shocked when you said Hashem's name, so it sounds like their Yiras Shamayim is pretty intact Wink you didnt mess any of them up, and you learned a lesson. Wink
sounds like a good ending of the story...
by the way I think you got the right pasuk in Vayera, thanx.
Back to top

Motek




 
 
 


Post  Sun, Jul 03 2005, 9:59 am
In another scenario, after the class gasped and you explained that the reason you pronounced it that way was because, as Rashi says, it was chol, you could have then re-read the pasuk and said "Hashem" and taught the other pshat in Rashi. You could have shown them both explanations and taught them that the word is sometimes chol and sometimes kodesh.
Back to top
1, 2  Next Recent Topics

Page 1 of 2 View latest: 24h 48h 72h


Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Peer supervision Lakewood
by amother
0 Mon, Mar 04 2019, 10:58 pm View last post
Pressure cooker/ Instant Pot 25 Tue, Nov 20 2018, 8:05 pm View last post
Pressure cooker ideas
by SS6099
6 Sun, Aug 12 2018, 11:34 am View last post
Pressure cooker minute roast 0 Sun, Aug 12 2018, 11:22 am View last post
High pressure steam pipe explodes in manhattan
by amother
0 Thu, Jul 19 2018, 2:37 pm View last post

Jump to: