Competition How good is it?

Tefila

Thu, Jun 02 2005, 3:35 pm

I really don't like competitions that one child gets or is chosen and the others get nonething Confused

With adults yes they understand but kids, to me it's strange.
Wether it's for learning, athletic activities, brain teasers, costumes, contests etc etc!
Am I the only one who thinks it's strange I mean any child who perticipates in something should win something no?!
Even though my kids b"h have won from diff organizations things ranging from writing, Tehillim contests etc and were listed as winners. But what about all the other kids all over the world who participate. Or even an acknowledgement to them. Confused

Btw I was once a head counselor once, though was criticized 4 being too nice Tongue Out

b/c to me every kid was a winner, so they always got something and the ones that excelled in whatever area got something extra special. And no it was not a money issue so tell me how off am I?

sarahd

Thu, Jun 02 2005, 3:40 pm

I was once quasi-director of the limudei Kodesh program in a school, and when I wanted to give prizes to the best students, I was told that I couldn't, because the other children would feel passed over. No one was allowed to be singled out as better than anyone else. The result was tremendous resentment on the part of the girls who had tried hard under difficult conditions to excel in their studies, whose efforts were not acknowledged. Is that better?

Tefila

Thu, Jun 02 2005, 3:43 pm

Quote:

The result was tremendous resentment on the part of the girls who had tried hard under difficult conditions to excel in their studies, whose efforts were not acknowledged. Is that better?

No!
But why not a certificate something it doesn't have to cost much, for them all whoever participated to be acknowledged What

gryp

Thu, Jun 02 2005, 3:58 pm

freilich- I agree with you. I dont like competitions much, but since they are a good motivator they can be very useful. but I like when there a few prizes- first place, second place, etc. and certificates for everyone else.
I also dont like the idea of raffles where everyone tries hard and one lucky person wins. for adults its ok because they understand how it works but kids get very disappointed.

Motek

Thu, Jun 02 2005, 5:12 pm

sometimes, the best students don't try hard, it comes easily

there can be winners of different divisions

as far as the general question - on the one hand, it says, "kinas sofrim tarbeh chochma" - that competition increases wisdom, it spurs you on to achieve more

on the other hand, Rambam describes Yemos Ha'Moshiach as a time without competition and jealousy

I like the idea of a system (for learning, not costumes!) in which each child has to master material that is appropriate for them.

queenie

Sun, Aug 28 2005, 9:12 pm

I find this a very interesting topic. I do feel that competition is very healthy for adults and children. There are times that only one person will be the winner and it does teach children a life lesson and that they can't always win. If you give too much to the "losers" then the winner feels passed over too and not as special. You have to view every situation carefully bc they are all different.

It depends on what type of competition and the age of those involved.

However, saying all that, different cultures view this very differently than Americans. Americans are more competitive than Canadians, I have definitely seen than. But, Japenese are the total opposite. I had a friend that lived in Japan and told me that they have totally the same view as Frielich.

When they play baseball for example they try to make sure that everyone gets a hit and you even get booed if you strike out a batter!! This is professional baseball, not the kids!!

1stimer

Mon, Aug 29 2005, 12:15 pm

I don't like competition between kids, because more often than not it is the same kids winning, (incidentally the kids who don't necessarily need the incentive to do well) and the kids who could do with winning, usually don't.

However I think that competition of kids individually, I.e. whoever can do better than they did last time is a winner, is good. Because then the kids who try hard can win and every kid has a chance of winning. Let's face it, if you are having a competition in the class, the weaker kids know not even to try because they don't have a chance.

amother

Mon, Aug 29 2005, 12:34 pm

when I was head counselor I also did away with the "hachi" prizes. especially since they often just rewarded the cutest kid, or the kid with the loudest voice, and it was not really something that every kid could earn just by effort alone. it was more of a personality contest.

even the contests that seem to be open to everyone: for example a chessed prize. often the "teacher's pet" wins. we are not g-d, we do not know which child really worked the hardest in chessed.

however I think that competition between goups can be very good. it can pull kids closer together (within their class/team/bunk) and it is not that painful to lose.

also just another observation: not every competitive kid actually enjoys competition - they just might feel more strongly compelled to compete because they have to win, while deep down they hate competition even more than the kids who just give up and don't bother with the whole thing.

amother because of identifying information

Motek

Tue, Dec 27 2005, 12:57 pm

Covey (7 Habits) once spoke to a group of 800 at their annual convention. 30 out of the 800 received awards. He asked the president:

"Didn't you hire all of these people to be winners?"

Yes

"Did you hire any losers?"

No.

"You have 770 losers tonight."

Well, they didn't win the contest.

"They're losers."

Why?

"Because of the way you're thinking. It's win-lose."

What else could you do?

"Make them all winners. Where did you get the concept that you have to have contests? Don't you have enough competition in the marketplace?"

Well, that's the way life is.

"Really? How's your relationship with your wife? Who's winning?"

Some days she wins. Some days I win.

"Is that the kind of modeling you want to give your kids for their futures? Come on!"

How do I do it with compensation?

"Set up an individualized win-win performance agreement with every person and every team. If they accomplish the desired results, they win."

One year later, Covey was invited back. Over 1000 people were at the annual rally. Out of the 1000 people, 800 had won. The 200 who didn't, chose not to. It was their choice. There was no comparison at all.

And what did those 800 produce? They produced as much business as the previous year's 30 - per person! 800 people were where the last year's 30 were.

***
incredible (though I don't quite get what "they produced as much business as the previous year's 30 means")

what if, instead of kids competing against each other in memorizing Mishnayos, for example, each kid was consulted and assessed as to how many mishnayos or perakim or mesechtos he was capable of memorizing and if he did it, he won. If he chose not to, he didn't win. Not that only the top few boys win.