teens going off the derech and personality

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

Teens going off the derech and personality

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Lechatchila Ariber

Sun, May 13 2007, 8:31 am

How much of it (kids who grow to teens that go off the derech) is personality based?
I'm sure there are many different factors that can contribute to a teen going off the derech, but I'm wondering what particular personality traits do parents need to keep an eye out for that can put a kid at greater risk.

Off the bat, I'm thinking low self esteem may be one to look out for.
Kids who are more susceptible to peer pressure...

chocolate moose

Sun, May 13 2007, 9:11 am

I don't know.

The Jewish Press this week talked about it being the fault of the marriage of the parents.

BrachaVHatzlocha

Sun, May 13 2007, 9:41 am

I've seen that it happens to many children with learning problems.... If they didn't have success in school, often they'd need to feel worthwhile elsewhere.
There are so many differnet factors!

amother

Sun, May 13 2007, 9:42 am

chocolate moose wrote:

I don't know.

The Jewish Press this week talked about it being the fault of the marriage of the parents.

That's like blaming cancer on consuming food coloring. Some get affected, some don't. Who's got the perfect marriage? I see many kids from homes with average marriages, straying off the Derech.

From quite a bit of experience, I see it more as a problem with these kids keeping rules, from the time they're small.

HindaRochel

Sun, May 13 2007, 9:50 am

It would be nice to have a list but I'm not sure if one is actually available. Two children from the same environment may behave in two abosolutely contrary ways. Environment of course has some affect; but it is the interaction between environment and innate personality. Unfortunately, we can't be perfect people, and we can't have all the answers at hand...

A list would be nice....

mimivan

Sun, May 13 2007, 10:20 am

If inherited personality traits are a factor, I'm in trouble... because I went off the wrong derech and onto the right one by becoming frum...or maybe it just means my kids will be looking for "meaning" if something they learn or are told to do doesn't make sense to them, and I should take this seriously so they don't go looking elsewhere Gd forbid!

Maybe avoiding dogmatism is a good way to pre-empt this..(for instance, I remember my Dad sent me to bed without any supper when I asked "Now, was FDR really a good president??) That's what really caused me to question things, and since politics was like a 'religion" in my home, I had to go "off that derech." Parents with inquisitive children should be prepared to hear (but not to put up with!!) anything and show strength rather than anger!

southernbubby

Sun, May 13 2007, 10:32 am

When I think of all of my friends with off-the-derech or very modern kids (when the parents are Lubavitch or Litvish frum) I truly can think of all kinds of people. I know strict and lenient parents, BT and FFB parents, good and bad marriage parents, outgoing and quiet kids, smart and challenged kids. The only common thread that I ever see is "back burner" kids. This is when a child's needs are overlooked because another child in the family is using the lion's share of the parents time and attention or some other issue such as parnassa causes a child to be ignored.

greenfire

Sun, May 13 2007, 10:52 am

You are right ... it's all my fault - thanks for the vote of confidence NOT - kids have their own inner make-up that has a lot to do with how their emotions ride anything in life out

chocolate moose

Sun, May 13 2007, 11:30 am

amother, the jewish press author speaks in very general terms.

su7kids

Sun, May 13 2007, 11:30 am

chocolate moose wrote:

I don't know.

The Jewish Press this week talked about it being the fault of the marriage of the parents.

Its so hard to generalize. I have one who is "different" than the rest of us, and what about the other 6 that are very committed still to the way they were raised?

If its the parents marriage, then all the kids would go off.

su7kids

Sun, May 13 2007, 11:31 am

BrachaVHatzlocha wrote:

I've seen that it happens to many children with learning problems.... If they didn't have success in school, often they'd need to feel worthwhile elsewhere.
There are so many differnet factors!

I think this does play a part. I think that them not being recognized and encouraged when it was important. Them not being listened to. They lose trust in adults and teachers and all that we stand for.

But how much can you take your kid's every complaint seriously?

chocolate moose

Sun, May 13 2007, 11:35 am

Did any of you read Rabbi Schonbach's book? or his weekly article in the Jewish Press?

shoy18

Sun, May 13 2007, 11:57 am

I think it has a lot to do with schools they go to and the kind of teachers they have, in relation to their personality's and self esteem. With one child, a teacher can say something hurtful and degrading and it will hit home and really cause trouble for the rest of the child's life, as with another child the comment just rolls off their back not to be thought of again.

Schools should be so careful with whom they hire to mold young children's minds.

chocolate moose

Sun, May 13 2007, 12:02 pm

Estie, how old are your kids?

greenfire

Sun, May 13 2007, 12:05 pm

they're never too young to instill in them as much as we possibly can ... all we can do is our best ... Hashem handles the rest ...

chocolate moose

Sun, May 13 2007, 12:13 pm

Green, I'm just saying, that I KNEW my son would be problematic; when he was TWO YEARS OLD he wouldn't do what the other kids were doing (learning mishnayos by heart, if my memory serves me correctly).

And, as per the other post, he had a real candy problem.

Sometimes a motherjust knows - and then ppl say, you get the most naches from those who gave you the most trouble, I think it's b/c you don't expect anything from these kids!

That's why DH was in the hospital last year, if anyone remembers that scenario . . . . . .

HindaRochel

Sun, May 13 2007, 12:17 pm

I think simplistic answers, when it comes to psychology, are almost always wrong.

amother

Sun, May 13 2007, 12:17 pm

Quote:

Kids who are more susceptible to peer pressure

Could very well be one of the main reasons:
Over accomodating parents I.e. a four yr old wants what so and so has and wants to go to sleep the same time as so and so parent wants their child to fit in socially , not be an outcast so accomodates.
The only problem is that though sometimes it is ok there has to be a stop and the child has to have a verbal chat that we don't need to have or do what everyone else has. Because as the child grows so do the want to fit in and some parents accomodate even if they feel it's a mishegas until it becomes out of control and these children have no mind of their own are held hostage to their peers and in the wrong company fall.
This my physycylogical assessment anyways Twisted Evil

greenfire

Sun, May 13 2007, 12:25 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

a 2 year old shouldn't be pushed to memorize mishnayos by heart ... pushing one is never any good ... although personalities are engrained in one from birth (before even) - what on earth does candy have anything to do with the future of ones entire life - a mother knows what a mother knows ... but a mother also pushes beyond the bounds ... above the limits ... to do everything possible ... and what we expect from these type of kids - you are right its nothing ... but one can and should still hope.

and I am sorry about your dh ...
I personally nearly dropped from all the emotional aggrevation ... that believe me nobody should ever know of ... when you lie on the ground and hyperventilating and cannot breath for fear FEAR of what your child is doing !!!

Ruchel

Sun, May 13 2007, 2:17 pm

- hypocrisy in the house/school will disgust idealistic kids
- not being answered or allowed to ask questions will disgust intelligent kids

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