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Moving to Israel without making aliyah
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amother




 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 2:55 pm
Has anyone done this? We are interested in aliyah but want to try it out for a year first before committing. Please do not advise us why not to do it. (I've heard it a million times-we won't try hard enough to make it work, etc). Its either we try it out for a year or stay in America indefinitely. My question is: how expensive is it to do this? Obviously no free plane tickets. No sal klitah. No arnona discount. What other expenses do we need to factor in that non-olim (and non-Israeli's) will incur? Obviously, we can't ask NBN for help with this.
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luppamom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 3:17 pm
amother wrote:
Has anyone done this? We are interested in aliyah but want to try it out for a year first before committing. Please do not advise us why not to do it. (I've heard it a million times-we won't try hard enough to make it work, etc). Its either we try it out for a year or stay in America indefinitely. My question is: how expensive is it to do this? Obviously no free plane tickets. No sal klitah. No arnona discount. What other expenses do we need to factor in that non-olim (and non-Israeli's) will incur? Obviously, we can't ask NBN for help with this.


I know plenty of people that live in Israel that are not citizens. After living here so many yrs. not knowing if they are going to stay, they lose all the benefits and just never make aliya. The only difference is that they mostly came as newlyweds. Personally, I made aliya after living here just over 2 yrs.

Here are the only ones I can think of:
-You have a harder time getting employed here since your employer will have to pay a lot of taxes
-you will have to go to misrad hapenim once a yr. (at least) or you will not have insurance
-I think you still CAN get lots of benefits like kitzvat yeladim (monthly stipend for having children).
-I think you CAN get an arnona discount if your income is low.
-you will have to pay privately for your insurance the first 6 mos. (although, this should still be cheaper than many American plans), you should theoretically, get paid back for this when you get insurance.
-Registering for the hospital is more complicated.
-you might not be able to get supermarket cards for discounts
-everything you do will be more complicated b/c no TZ.
-Also, if you are interested in ulpan, that will come out of your pocekt.
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greenfire




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 3:33 pm
dunno but you're going to have to find some sort of visa to be allowed in ... isn't that hard enough
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 9:28 pm
Why cant you ask nefesh bnefesh? they help many people out that never made aliyah with them. I made aliyah before nefesh bnefesh existed and I have used their help many times.
I say ask them. The worst thing that can happen is that they tell you they cant help, but you will never know if they cant help if you dont ask.

The main thing that I thought of was health insurance. You will have to pay for your own.
And just a thought. Things that you would not have to pay for as a citizen, you will have to pay for as a non citizen, so your finances wont even show properly what you really would be spending per month because you will be paying for more things.
And what greenfire said holds very true. I dont know what kind of visas there are for an entire year. That might be a hard one.
Good luck though.
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kb




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 9:52 pm
If you are seriously considering aliya just want to try it out first, I believe there is a temporary resident status. I second calling nbn and seeing what they say.
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DrMom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 10:45 pm
luppamom wrote:
I know plenty of people that live in Israel that are not citizens. After living here so many yrs. not knowing if they are going to stay, they lose all the benefits and just never make aliya.

THIS. If you are in Israel -- either as tourist or employee -- cumulatively for over a specified number of months, you get reduced benefits (no mortgage discounts, free ulpan, etc.) when you make aliyah. Make sure you understand the downside of what you are proposing.
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luppamom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 11:34 pm
[quote="DrMom"]THIS. If you are in Israel -- either as tourist or employee -- cumulatively for over a specified number of months, you get reduced benefits (no mortgage discounts, free ulpan, etc.) But, I think it's a yr. and a half and if she makes sure to visit the USA a couple times (those days are subtracted) she should be fine.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 11:35 pm
[quote="luppamom"]
DrMom wrote:
THIS. If you are in Israel -- either as tourist or employee -- cumulatively for over a specified number of months, you get reduced benefits (no mortgage discounts, free ulpan, etc.) But, I think it's a yr. and a half and if she makes sure to visit the USA a couple times (those days are subtracted) she should be fine.
Very Happy right, because everyone has that kind of money to be able to do that. Smile not very realistic.
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luppamom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 11:40 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Very Happy right, because everyone has that kind of money to be able to do that. Smile not very realistic.


Well, it's cheaper than losing saal klita money! I would only recommend this if she can't make up her mind before 18 mos. I wouldn't just go for a holiday. I would go for a simcha or YT (obviously depending on her family situation).
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luppamom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 11:50 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Why cant you ask nefesh bnefesh? they help many people out that never made aliyah with them. I made aliyah before nefesh bnefesh existed and I have used their help many times.
I say ask them. The worst thing that can happen is that they tell you they cant help, but you will never know if they cant help if you dont ask.

The main thing that I thought of was health insurance. You will have to pay for your own.
And just a thought. Things that you would not have to pay for as a citizen, you will have to pay for as a non citizen, so your finances wont even show properly what you really would be spending per month because you will be paying for more things.
And what greenfire said holds very true. I dont know what kind of visas there are for an entire year. That might be a hard one.
Good luck though.


I third the recommendation to call NBN. You have nothing to lose. They are very helpful!
Whether you pay for insurance or not, depends on the type of visa. IIRC, tourist visas are the only type of visa that causes problems w/ insurance.

If your DH is taking a "sabbatical" to learn in Kollel or Yeshiva or a University, it should be pretty easy to get A2 visas for him and have your family accompany him. This is what I had. W/ this status you can get insurance after being in the country 6 mos. (see what I wrote above about getting paid back). Anyway, if you were paying insurance payments in America, even if you pay for private insurance here, I think it might come out cheaper. Meuhedet offers private insurance for foreigners. You can also work, if you get "working papers" not very hard to do.

If not, there is the permanent resident visa, but that might make things sticky for you when/if you make aliya. I don't know a/t about this.

You could come as a tourist. You will get a 3 mo. visa and will have to keep renewing it. I don't know how long they'll give you, but this might be an option. Although, legally you won't be able to work and you'll have to pay for the private insurance and not be reimbursed and will not be entitled to any benefits. I think this is what people were referring to when they said it would be hard financially.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 11:50 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Very Happy right, because everyone has that kind of money to be able to do that. Smile not very realistic.
Why in the world was I hugged? This is not me. I dont need the money to travel to america 3 times a year. I was just putting it out there as something that may or may not be realistic.
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luppamom




 
 
 
 

Post Tue, Dec 23 2014, 11:57 pm
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Why in the world was I hugged? This is not me. I dont need the money to travel to america 3 times a year. I was just putting it out there as something that may or may not be realistic.


I didn't give you the hug whether it was genuine or snarky!
IIRC, you have your family here! You are very lucky! I can't say I would want to be in America every single YT as I love YT here, but if I had the money (or someone else wanted to sponsor), I would love to see my family. DD is going to grow up knowing my family as faces on the computer screen... I love it here and wouldn't give it up for anything.

Not to discourage you OP> I love Israel and cannot imagine living anywhere else even if it meant seeing my family more often.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 12:00 am
luppamom wrote:
I didn't give you the hug whether it was genuine or snarky!
IIRC, you have your family here! You are very lucky! I can't say I would want to be in America every single YT as I love YT here, but if I had the money (or someone else wanted to sponsor), I would love to see my family. DD is going to grow up knowing my family as faces on the computer screen... I love it here and wouldn't give it up for anything.

Not to discourage you OP> I love Israel and cannot imagine living anywhere else even if it meant seeing my family more often.
This was my point Smile my point was, who has the money to travel back to their country of origin three times a year, a family with children? Do you know how much money that is? A heck of a lot.
Even before all of my family was here, I almost never went back to visit, unless that said family wanted us to come so they paid. And we are only 3 people. Can you imagine a larger family? I cant. That was my only point.
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amother




 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 4:22 am
Op here: what about schools?.we would probably go to RBS. Would we have to pay higher tuition as non-israelis? My husband is not in kollel. He would probably take his american job (dont get all excited, he doesnt make a ton of money and we wouldn't be able to afford trips back and forth :-)
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 4:32 am
amother wrote:
Op here: what about schools?.we would probably go to RBS. Would we have to pay higher tuition as non-israelis? My husband is not in kollel. He would probably take his american job (dont get all excited, he doesnt make a ton of money and we wouldn't be able to afford trips back and forth :-)
schools is what you are worried about? No matter what tuition is, it is most definitely lower than what you would be paying out of israel.
OP, the questions that people asked about the things that you would have to pay for as non citizens, that is ok with you?
And what about visas?

Just thinkilng aloud. Those things would make me really nervous for a whle year.
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luppamom




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 4:48 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
schools is what you are worried about? No matter what tuition is, it is most definitely lower than what you would be paying out of israel.
OP, the questions that people asked about the things that you would have to pay for as non citizens, that is ok with you?
And what about visas?

Just thinkilng aloud. Those things would make me really nervous for a whle year.


I don't have much to say on the topic as I do not have school-aged kids, but it could be that OP is getting a scholarship for her kids in America. She would have to compare what she's paying to what it would cost to send her kids to school here.

Maybe call the schools?

But, from hearing that your DH is working in America, Shabbat is right. You can't do the student visa and the other two visas are complicated and might get sticky.

Also, if you do this, just warning you to make your decision w/ some grace time before your zechoyut run out. I just barely made it (I think w/in several DAYS) and I got saal klita which was a significant amount of money and was very helpful.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 4:50 am
luppamom wrote:
I don't have much to say on the topic as I do not have school-aged kids, but it could be that OP is getting a scholarship for her kids in America. She would have to compare what she's paying to what it would cost to send her kids to school here.

Maybe call the schools?

But, from hearing that your DH is working in America, Shabbat is right. You can't do the student visa and the other two visas are complicated and might get sticky.

Also, if you do this, just warning you to make your decision w/ some grace time before your zechoyut run out. I just barely made it (I think w/in several DAYS) and I got saal klita which was a significant amount of money and was very helpful.
so interesting. when did you made aliyah? when I came, there was sal klita, but it was nothing major at all.
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luppamom




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 5:02 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
so interesting. when did you made aliyah? when I came, there was sal klita, but it was nothing major at all.


A few months ago. For a single it is not that much. For a couple it is more. For a couple (or a single) w/ a baby or children, even more. It's not enough money for me to retire Smile but it definitely helps pay the rent!
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 5:05 am
luppamom wrote:
A few months ago. For a single it is not that much. For a couple it is more. For a couple (or a single) w/ a baby or children, even more. It's not enough money for me to retire Smile but it definitely helps pay the rent!
ah, ok. I made aliyah as a single female 12 years ago. it was a few hundred shekels.
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rkade10




 
 
 
 

Post Wed, Dec 24 2014, 5:07 am
Try getting A1 visas so you have residency but aren't citizens. It's not making aliya, but it can be helpful. I think with an A1 visa you can get Bituach Leumi...
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