Preschool director washed girls mouth with soap!!

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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mumoo

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 4:06 pm

'"we had it and we turned out ok" great for you. Where are those weighing in that didn't turn out ok?? How do we know which children can handle abusive punishments?

punishments that are dealt with physical force or intimidation are only effective while the threat is still viable. As soon as the child is no longer smaller or dependent, the threat of punishment no longer works.

Last edited by mumoo on Mon, Jun 11 2007, 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

de_goldy

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 6:04 pm

any update from the original poster?

amother

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 10:36 pm

I am the OP. I did not post till now because nothing significant happened. On monday, following the incident I went over to this girls teacher (a young girl herself) and asked her how that girl was doing. I was trying to get the girl's name out of her without straight out asking. However, she had been forewarned. She immedietly began defending the preschool director and wouldnt tell me the girls name. She told me that the girl wasnt traumatized at all and that 'you have to know the whole story to understand'. Obviously, the principals daughters told this director that I had commented on the soap abuse and the director spoke to the nursery teacher and warned her to not talk to me about it.

I looked around the classroom but I didnt recognize the girl's face Sad

Shortly afterwards, the preschool director herself passed me in the hallway and snottily said to me :' I heard you passed judgement on me last week". I was SO taken aback. I am usually good with witty responses but I was at a loss. I just responded. " it wasnt judgement . It was Horror!". She continued to walk past me (as if I am an insignificant inferior) and said as she walked "I call it judgement".

I was SO mad and frustrated with her but I feel as if I have nothing more I can do. I cant tell on this woman to social services. I told my agency, and Im hoping they do something about it (but I doubt they will). I cant find out the girl's name, and this woman preschool director is well aware how I feel about her and her 'methods'. I will not be back at this school next year, so I am just counting down the seconds till the summer so I dont have to ever see her nasty face again.

I feel bad for this little girl, but I am stuck. I will have to live with knowing I should have tried harder to stop that abuse as it was happening, but unforunately I didnt realize what was going on till it was over.

I hope that this "Morah Hindy" will get hers one day.

greenfire

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 10:43 pm

hey you could still be bold and ask out loud which girl got her mouth washed out with soap ...

you could call social services ...

this is really sad Sad

amother

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 10:52 pm

ya u can ask one of the kids

anon

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 11:02 pm

The OP said that she did not recognize the girl among the faces in the classroom, so how can she find out the name? I don't think it's her responsibility to engage in a whole private investigation.

el2cg

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 11:04 pm

I remember my first grade teacher making a kid rinse her mouth with suop (a bit, diluted in water), she said a dirty word, and was warned before hand. the kid did ibravely, adn bragged that it was "nothing" I remeber weing scared she was gonna die! ow well...this incidents still stands out in my memory and also to many others.

amother

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 11:16 pm

anon wrote:

The OP said that she did not recognize the girl among the faces in the classroom, so how can she find out the name? I don't think it's her responsibility to engage in a whole private investigation.

thank u

(-op)

healthymama

Mon, Jun 11 2007, 11:21 pm

Quote:

just responded. " it wasnt judgement . It was Horror!".

Good for you, that was brave.

You could do a little pull out group with five girls from that class to screen them for speech problems and instead of doing that, ask them who in the class gets their mouth washed out with soap. You don't even have to ask them. If you just start talking about how putting things in your mouth is not safe, like soap, even if someone is washing it out etc, one of them will probably come up with " so-and-so gets soap put in her mouth".

mumoo

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 8:10 am

does the preschool director have someone to answer to? this person should be told about the incident and about the director's threatening/rude behavior to you

Cinderella

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 11:11 am

Wow, if this is how the PRINCIPAL of the school behaves, and talks, you can only imagine the cr@p that goes on in that school (health code violations, abuse, lying..etc). I would involve the authorities, who can investigate for themselves who this little girl is, what exactly happened, and to make sure that this never happens again. I don't think that you would want someone who did this, C"V, to your baby to get away with it! It comes down to protecting our children!!!!!!!!
Lastly, I really do feel for you too, it must have been very awkward and painful to watch, and then deal with a the Twisted Evil

and her snotty attitude.

amother

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 11:24 am

Just a thought about this whole story. Maybe the mother DOES know about it. Maybe this whole issue was discussed between the school and mother and mother agreed (maybe even recommended) that this be done?? As the teacher said, the OP doesn't know the whole story.

Just trying to be dan lekaf zechus. Confused

Cinderella

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 11:28 am

Amother, I hear what you are saying. However, why the defensiveness, and the snotty atittude, the original poster encountered? Confused

Its obvious that an injustice was done, and they are trying to cover it up.

southernbubby

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 1:40 pm

I think that children today are more confident because they are less frightened of authority figures. However, I would not go as far as to say that the child that OP posted about was damaged for life.
Sometimes we adults who lived in a different generation have to "change the tapes in our head" in order not to stay affected by a frightening adult. For example, I was always afraid of Miss Loraine the swimming teacher who I thought would throw me into the deep end if I stopped swimming in the middle of a lap. Boy, was she mean and she liked boys better than girls. I was a terrible swimmer and that annoyed Miss Loraine. Now when I swim, I remind myself that Miss Loraine would be very, very old by now and would not have much to say about my swimming.!

mumoo

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 5:51 pm

southernbubby wrote:

but how would you know for sure, why take chances by punishing in a cruel, forceful manner?
Adults have to be in control of themselves. This punishment was given in anger, not in a loving way.
And while parents may be excused from perfect behavior once in a great while because of the stresses of parenthood, a teacher does not enjoy that same liberty with other people's children.

Let's not forget, this child was 4 years old!

That's not enough lifetime to realize that some teachers have issues that are not her fault. Or that forcing a cruel punishment on a hysterically crying little girl is not the correct way to behave.

That little girl did NOT learn to behave better. She learned that bigger, stronger people are always right and teachers can do cruel hateful things. And quite possibly that her parents approve, as they sent her to that school and did not object to the cruelty.

southernbubby

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 5:58 pm

While there is no way to know for sure if the child is damaged, and I am not defending the pre-school director, most children will encounter nasty people as they travel through life and they do recover. I am not saying that we deliberately put nasty people in their paths.

anon

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 5:59 pm

Goodness, there's abuse and then there's ABUSE. While I strongly disapprove of such behavior and I would be furious if a teacher did this to my child, I do believe that the reactions here are blown out of proportion.

This is not ABUSE. It's just abuse. Does that make any sense? I'm too tired to explain Wink

anon

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 6:02 pm

southernbubby wrote:

This is basically what I was trying to say.

A child can be expected to recover from such an incident. It would be pretty pathetic if she gets messed up from this one teacher. Children go off the derech from a multitude of negative experiences....not because they once had a mean teacher in kindergarten. It's not like real abuse, G-d forbid, such as s-xual abuse, where a one time experience is so traumatizing that the child is affected for life.

greenfire

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 6:13 pm

el2cg wrote:

chances are that this kid is going to remember well ... and have an excuse when she grows up and rebels ... and different people have different emotional responses ...

Cinderella wrote:

im obviously not the only one who feels this strongly ...

bashinda

Tue, Jun 12 2007, 6:19 pm

and I'm with you 100% greenfire. I'm sorry but it's not the soap even it's the emotional abuse that's the iker here. She's just learned that she's a bad girl. She probably doesn't understand enough to know that the adult is behaving badly. This is not sme random adult either but the hanhala. That is messed up. Sorry, anon, I do not understand "there is abuse and there is abuse."

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