Wisconsin GOP limits bulk food purchases on food stamps.

MagentaYenta

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:12 pm

Other states like Maine and AR are also looking at further restrictions. This article is from Think Progress and I'll cut and paste it in it's entirety.http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2015/05/01/3653919/wisconsin-food-stamps-shellfish/

"Low-income Wisconsin families won’t be able to buy shellfish with food stamps, and will have a much harder time getting basics like dried beans, pasta sauce, and cooking spices into their kitchens, under the latest state-level Republican proposal to tighten the government’s grip on the poor.
A bill proposed by state Rep. Robert Brooks (R) would ban stores from accepting Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) cards for lobster, shrimp, and any other form of shellfish, and set a long list of additional rules for the first two-thirds of a recipient’s monthly spending. Lawmakers held a committee hearing Thursday on the bill, which would require a federal waiver to implement.
An average of 420,000 households received SNAP each month in Wisconsin in 2014. The average recipient household got $220 per month from the program last year. Brooks’ restrictions would apply to all but $72.60 per month for the average household affected. And even that amount could not be spent on any form of shellfish.
Next to other recent state-level SNAP restrictions, Brooks’ bill looks like an attempt at compromise. It mandates that at least two-thirds of a recipients food stamps be spent on designated categories of food, and leaves the last third unrestricted. Republicans in other states have sought outright prohibitions rather than Brooks’ partial, ratio-based ban. Brooks says he has resisted calls from colleagues to add steak to the list of banned foods. The ban on shellfish is more moderate than a ban on all seafood proposed by one Missouri lawmaker earlier this year, meaning that cheap sources of protein like canned tuna would still be unrestricted for Wisconsin’s poorest families.
But the fact that Brooks doesn’t want to go quite as far as the worst ideas of his colleagues doesn’t mean his proposal would benefit society or make it easier to get out of poverty. Adding more rules to the ones that already constrain food stamps families makes their shopping experiences more stressful and removes their already-limited control over what they put on the dinner table.
The law would restrict access to a whole range of commonplace ingredients. Some of the things that would be harder to buy for poor families who cook include “herbs, spices, or seasonings,” all nuts, red and yellow potatoes, smoothies, spaghetti sauce, “soups, salsas, ketchup,” sauerkraut, pickles, dried beans sold in bulk, and white or albacore tuna. (Cans of “light tuna” are allowed under the rules.)
To demonstrate the perils of food policing at Thursday’s hearing, a Democrat on the committee held up a plate of four different kinds of cheese. Although they are nutritionally indistinguishable, three of the four cheeses would be prohibited. “When you look at something like this cheese plate, there’s no evidence of sharp cheddar fraud. People are not buying sharp cheddar in order to defraud FoodShare, and there’s no nutritional difference. So if those are the stated goals, the bill is not accomplishing either,” Rep. Mark Spreitzer said.
Brooks’ bill is just the latest example of conservatives around the country being loudly concerned about the scourge of poor people making their own decisions. Kansas Republicans recently got a radical, unprecedented list of activities and purchases banned for SNAP and welfare recipients. The Maine GOP is working toward its own version of a “junk food ban,” while a Missouri version of the shellfish idea appears to be going nowhere in the statehouse.
The wave of hard-hearted food stamps laws follows a concerted effort in right-wing media to portray beneficiaries as greedy swindlers. The “young buck buying t-bone steaks” image that Ronald Reagan used to smear SNAP recipients in the 1970s and ’80s has been updated thanks to a Fox News special report.
The conservative cable network relentlessly hyped an interview with a jobless California surfer named Jason Greenslate who bragged about using SNAP to buy lobster, and even delivered copies of the special report to members of congress ahead of a 2013 vote on major cuts to the food stamps budget.
Despite conservative portrayals of the program as a bottomless giveaway that’s grown out of control in recent years, the reality of any safety net program is that when the economy is lousy, enrollment and total costs jump. Total spending on SNAP — which generates about $1.80 in economic activity for every dollar it costs the Treasury — is already trending downward on its own thanks to the gradual recovery. Fraud is vanishingly rare in the program. And the typical food stamps family is working and raising children, not surfing."

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:19 pm

I don't understand the point. Junk food I understand if they have data showing it's causing medicaid costs to rise....but for staple items? When the money runs out, the family will either have to pay out of pocket or do without. What is the benefit to having them buy ground meat over shellfish or whatever? White potatoes over red? (I would even argue that nutritionally red is probably better as people are more likely to eat the peel with the fiber) How does it save money?

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:20 pm

Wait, are they saying because people might then sell the red potatoes instead of the white potatoes to have cash back? That's ridiculous.

MagentaYenta

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:23 pm

There are some great hyperlinks in the original story if you want to further fuel your outrage.

I'm not a fan of telling anyone how to spend their food $$, even poor people on SNAP. I don't know too much about the street drug trade but maybe red potatoes can be converted into a street drug or traded for crack?

saw50st8

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:40 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

Since the program is designed to supplement your nutrition, I think things like soda and candy and pure junk with zero nutrition should be banned. Shellfish is a good source of protein. I don't know why red potatoes are banned. Rolling Eyes

Amarante

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:41 pm

Red potatoes are more expensive. They are trying to prevent poor people buying expensive food like albacore tuna instead of dark tuna. Spices are expensive. Spaghetti sauce is more expensive than a can of tomato sauce. Shellfish is expensive and they wanted to prohibit all fish and steak. Looks like some more expensive cheese would be prohibited. Velveeta yes but not a block of cheddar

ETA. I am not in favor of this draconian punishment of those who need help to get food. I was just pointing out that they were attempting to justify by eliminating what they perceived as "luxuries" those nogudnik poor people didn't deserve.

Last edited by Amarante on Tue, May 05 2015, 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:42 pm

I'll have to ask my homies.

Seriously, I was once shopping in my local grocery and an elderly man was having trouble buying the juice he had picked out with foodstamps. It was the store's fault and apparently it had happened to him the previous visit and they said they would fix it. I don't begrudge him that juice at all -- if he runs out of money, that's something he will have to work with, but in the meantime this may be good for him to absorb his medications better or for the vitamins/calcium added, or his wife is on a liquid only diet, or who knows? I felt so bad for him, and it must have felt quite embarrassing to have to fight to be able to get his $3 juice Sad

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 05 2015, 1:46 pm

Amarante wrote:

But what difference does it make? Maybe it will teach budgeting?
If a family knows they have $400 in food for free, and they spend half of that on luxury items, tough luck on them. It doesn't cost the government any more. If they choose to be more frugal and have the $400 last farther, kol hakavod to them.

And limiting bulk purchases makes no sense either (other than the argument that it may be used to sell for cash) as a good way of paying less is by buying more at a time at a cheaper price and then not having to re-buy it.

Most things that are cheaper are also junkier (soda is cheaper than juice or milk, though I really don't have much problem with soda not being "food"). White bread vs whole wheat. Extremely processed junk vs fresher dairy/meat.

MagentaYenta

Tue, May 05 2015, 2:14 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

The Wisc. law takes it a few steps further. 2/3 of ones budget must be spent on designated types of food. What if they decide to further restrict purchasing to ground meat only no whole cuts? Or perhaps no kosher, halal or gluten free products?

No another boot on the neck of working poor isn't something I support. (And the majority of SNAP beneficiaries work.) I get a grand $16 of SNAP benefits a month, if I want to treat myself to a bottle of pop (I actually don't use it) or ice cream (which I do use) it's none of the govts. business.

There are little idiocies trapped in this bill, no canned beans, and if you are buying string beans in a can they can only be whole. You cannot buy sprouting grains which are nutritionally dense.

MagentaYenta

Tue, May 05 2015, 2:30 pm

I can't seem to copy and pasted from the WI DHS website PDF. For those that can access PDF files this is the list. https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/.....8.pdf

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 05 2015, 2:37 pm

Aren't there existing laws (or maybe it depends on the state) that you have to be working or looking for work (unless you are disabled) to be on SNAP? So yeah, most people are trying. I cannot imagine having to have an entire rule book in front of you when trying to shop. I've never been on WIC, but even there it gets complicated, and there are fewer items. Some stores mark on the shelves what is WIC eligible, but for foodstamps, it's a lot more food to work on marking yes or no.

Raisin

Tue, May 05 2015, 2:38 pm

That is insane. Maybe spices are expensive but they can be used to make cheap food like beans or lentils taste good. And a little goes a long way.

I totally get why banning (or limiting) things like soda might be desirable but bulk beans??

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 05 2015, 2:38 pm

MagentaYenta wrote:

I can't seem to copy and pasted from the WI DHS website PDF. For those that can access PDF files this is the list. https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/.....8.pdf

Wait, this is WIC, yeah, that's been quite restrictive for a while.

MagentaYenta

Tue, May 05 2015, 2:41 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

This legislation doesn't account for the fact that many poor and working poor may live in food deserts that lack access to large grocery stores.

My first job in public service was a as a WIC home educator. I taught people to cook nutritionally dense foods, make grocery budgets, meal plan and shop. As large agra subsidies grew, money for educators was cut, it was easier for the govt. to promote food that was being grown in excess while under subsidy and price support programs.

Each state has the ability to enact welfare reforms. I'm not sure how the welfare to work programs work in states or how they are administered.

Amarante

Tue, May 05 2015, 2:56 pm

I just wanted to clarify that this is just a terrible law with the intent solely to punish poor people for being poor.

I am not naive enough to think there is no fraud in any assistance program or that people don't make less than wise nutritional decisions but this law is intended to humiliate and punish - NOT to help people.

Why would spaghetti sauce be eliminated. Yes, it is more expensive slightly than making from scratch but many people on food stamps are the working poor - single women who can feed the children with a spaghetti sauce and some pasta - and maybe a can of cut string beans on the side. It's certainly cheaper and healthier than bad takeout when a mother is exhausted.

Children go to school hungry in this country - for many reasons of course but I don't think the solution is to make it harder for the vast vast majority of poor people who are trying to do the right thing.

I wish the government invested as much money in programs designed to teach people as they do to punish people. Maybe spend some money on nutrition and cooking classes so that kids learn to make more appropriate decisions. A lot of people grow up without any cooking skills at all. The was a television series a few years ago in which Jamie Oliver (a famous chef) who is passionate about healthier foods for children went into a school district in West Virginia which has a very high obesity rate. With some simple changes, he was able to educate kids so that they were motivated to make better choices as well as helping the "lunch ladies" cook foods that were kid friendly as well as being more nutritious.

Amarante

Tue, May 05 2015, 3:00 pm

Here's a recipe for a veggie heavy Cassoulet. It specifies sausage as well but no reason not to try it with franks. I've made it with chicken thighs (boneless) and it is excellent.

Cassoulet with Lots of Vegetables
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recipe By: Mark Bittman
Serving Size: 4

Ingredients:

2 TBS olive oil
1 lb. Italian sausage, bone-in pork chops, duck breasts,
or chicken legs, or 1 pound of a combination of meats
1 TBS garlic, chopped
2 leeks or onions, washed and sliced
2 carrots, peeled and cut into 1-inch lengths
3 celery stalks, cut into 1/2-inch pieces
2 medium zucchinis, cut into 1/2-inch pieces
Salt and freshly ground pepper
4 cups canned tomatoes (and juice), chopped
1/4 cup fresh parsley leaves, chopped
1 TBS fresh thyme leaves, chopped
2 bay leaves
4 cups canned white beans, drained and liquid reserved in
case needed
2 cups chicken or vegetable stock
1/8 teaspoon cayenne pepper, or to taste

Directions:

Heat oil in a large saucepan over medium-high heat. Add meat and cook, turning until browned on all sides, about 10 minutes. Remove from pan and drain off all but 2 TBS of fat. Turn heat to medium, add garlic, leeks or onions, carrots, celery, and zucchini; season with salt and pepper. Cook 5 minutes, or until softened. Add tomatoes and juice, meat, chicken or vegetable stock and herbs. Bring to a boil. Add beans and boil again, stirring occasionally; reduce heat so mixture bubbles gently. Cook for 20 minutes, adding stock or bean liquid when mixture gets thick. Fish out meat; remove bones and skin and chop into chunks. Return to pot and add cayenne. Warm through.

Hashem_Yaazor

Tue, May 05 2015, 3:07 pm

Sorry, need to remove the fresh herbs and canned tomatoes and probably the beans. Take out the cayenne pepper, too. Food should be tasteless if you're poor.

Miri7

Tue, May 05 2015, 3:08 pm

This is just dreadful and part of the GOP agenda to punish people for being poor. I find it so terribly upsetting and urge everyone to contribute to their local food banks or programs that distribute grocery gift cards. I cannot imagine being an exhausted mother trying to feed her family only to reach the register and find out that the type of potato or spaghetti sauce that's on clearance isn't permitted.

It is wrong to further subject people to shame for being poor.

MagentaYenta

Tue, May 05 2015, 3:11 pm

Hashem_Yaazor wrote:

Sorry, need to remove the fresh herbs and canned tomatoes and probably the beans. Take out the cayenne pepper, too. Food should be tasteless if you're poor.

Yea it's not enough punishment just being poor. I swear some of these politicians must spend days on end thinking up ways to make folks lives harder while ensuring their lobbyists clients get their fair share of the SNAP marketplace.

And no ketchup or salsa!! Ronnie Reagan is rolling in his grave.

Amarante

Tue, May 05 2015, 3:31 pm

Oops recipe posted in wrong thread lol