Problem solving, ideas, meltdowns

amother

Coral

Thu, Jul 02 2015, 10:49 pm

My son is 7 years old and ever since he was little I noticed he was not a typical kid where he sits down and plays w toys for hours. he used to just talk to me or do physical things like running jumping on beds or couches or bikes and scooters.

When he begs for us to buy him a toy and we do and it requires minimal mental effort and it automatically creates a M E L T D O W N.

you would think I'm punishing him by buying him a toy and forcing him to play. If I manage to get him to play he builds really not special things at all. Nothing ingenious, nothing clever, let's say just a tall tower. Nothing that looks like anything. I give him an idea to, let's say, make a plane and the meltdown begins. He doesn't even try. He's programmed to think he can't.

If his bathing suit is wet and I tell him that it needs to dry it for tomorrow so he should hang it he completely freezes. Has no idea how to fix this problem.

This obviously translates into behavior issues at school and home because socially he can't come up w ideas or ways to fix minor problems. His friends bother him a little he can't think let's tell the rebbe, answer back in defense or anything productive, it's a sure fight when it could've been solved easily (let's take turns, play together, etc)

I think in school work this also means he is lazy. If he doesn't automatically guess the word or instructions or gets it wrong it's a meltdown also. Reading again so he can get it right is a job that takes 10 min of convincing that it's ok to make a mistake and he can do it pls try again. (He is good at math surprisingly he doesn't mind thinking for that)

He's my first. I probably should've addressed this earlier but I never knew how. (Plus I was always busy emotionally dealing w the problems that my second has) is this something that gets fixed w ot? Or how? Please advice

seeker

Fri, Jul 03 2015, 1:53 am

I know this is a very minor part of your post, but lose the word "lazy." Just remove it from your vocabulary completely.

It sounds like a brain processing problem. He gets stuck. This is a real problem and I 100% guarantee it is more frustrating and upsetting for him than for anyone who has to deal with him (you, the teachers, etc)

Since you say it manifests in school as social and behavior problems, I would request an evaluation by the school psychologist or DOE (do you live in the US? Should be easy to arrange here) which would probably lead to counseling services that can help. OT is also possibly relevant, in the sense that he has difficulty planning out his actions. However I'm not sure the DOE would approve services for that. If you can afford to go private, it's not a bad idea.

Meanwhile, the best thing you can do (IMHO) is to set him up for success by breaking everything down into small steps. Show him step by step exactly what to do with a wet bathing suit, first few times do it with him, next few times tell him one step at a time as he does it, next few times tell him a couple of steps at a time to follow, and hopefully this will lead to him being able to do it on his own. Do this for many actions. Besides simply getting those things done, this will build his sense of being able to do things. It will also IY"H (in the very long term) lead to him being able to figure out more different things for himself because he has a bigger data bank of examples to draw from (e.g. the wet bathing suit skills can someday be generalized to wet towels)

I think it's important to do this with toys as well. Toys are important. Step by step - instead of "make a plane" maybe get the lego mini-sets and go through the steps one at a time. These things have very few pieces and with your coaching he should be able to learn how to follow the steps. Imagine how low a kid feels about himself if he can't even figure out how to put together a few legos. Once he gets the hang of doing one mini car kit or something, he can go off from that to build cars with any legos he encounters on playdates or anything. A little teaching can gain a lot of mileage in his pride and social standing.

You say he likes physical/movement activities. If you have a really good coach in your neighborhood, consider enrolling him in some sport or martial arts. The really good kids' sports groups teach them a lot about problem-solving and getting along. However, get good references on the teacher/coach because your child will need someone very gentle and encouraging, and skilled at bringing out these things in children.

FranticFrummie

Fri, Jul 03 2015, 3:04 am

This may be a long shot, but consider getting him tested for Fragile X Syndrome. Your son sounds exactly like my FX daughter, and her half brother.

DD freezes up in school and completely disconnects. She does't melt down, as much as she SHUTS down. For years her main coping strategy has been to hide under her desk when she gets overwhelmed. Now that she's 12, she will just put her head down and pretend to be asleep, refusing to acknowledge that the class is going on around her.

I finally had to pull her out of the third school that we've tried, and am home schooling her. It's still hard teaching her, but I've gotten to where I can anticipate her shutting down, and divert her most of the time. We're trying a new school for her next year, but keeping her back a grade because she's refused to learn this past year.

*Her younger half brother will freeze up at the slightest thing, and his favorite complaint is "I CAN'T!" He's only 4, but he's already showing signs of processing disorders, and most likely will be somewhere on the spectrum.

A diagnosis won't "fix" anything, but it can help you pinpoint what is your child's hard wiring, and what can be addressed in therapy. It will give you a more realistic idea of what you can expect from your child, and how hard you should or shouldn't be pushing him.

(*DD is adopted, her half brother lives with DD's birth mom. We see them often, and the similarities in their issues is remarkable. Birth mom is a carrier for Fragile X.)

amother

Coral

Fri, Jul 03 2015, 8:52 am

Thank You for responding.
A few points: Legos, clicks, magnatiles, etc are a HUGE trigger to meltdowns. After A LOT of convincing him to try with the instructions he does but the first mistake results in the meltdown.

He is already approved for counseling,p3 and title 1. I will request another evaluation right away for ot or whatever they can offer with the processing.

The school decided he has adhd and they sent me to a pediatric neurologist who was really just horrible. He asked 4 questions and then proceeded to prescribe aderall. I didn't fill that prescription obviously since I didn't feel like that was a thorough evaluation for him to decide such a thing.

He does have executive skills issues and processing. A simple instruction such as go get dressed used to have to be repeated a hundred times. When I finally got him to go into his room he would procrastinate/get distracted and several reminders would have to be given to get the end result. It was exhausting but I finally got him to follow through (most days) with the morning routine bh. Reminders are still given but considerably less.

The Morah describes him as a dreamer. I don't think he's out in space, I think he probably doesn't believe in himself so he just assumes he can't so he doesn't. When the class is given a project and instructions she notices he doesn't start with the rest of the kids so she reminds him to try and repeat the instruction, he needs a little explanation but then he starts his work.

He's actually smart, he just doesn't know it or wanna find it out. (That's the only reason why I used the word lazy, never to him obviously, but how else can u understand a kid with potential that doesn't use it?)

I would love for him to join a sport but he also feels incompetent there. And the school hours don't leave much room for anything. And the most meltdowns occur when he is overtired. He needs to sleep 12 hrs or he is a nightmare the next day tantruming about the smallest things or instructions given.

seeker

Fri, Jul 03 2015, 2:46 pm

Nothing in OP particularly shouted "auditory" to me, though these things often come together so it definitely wouldn't hurt to rule out. New amother, are you sure out of pocket is the only way for you? Where do you live?
For OP, executive function is much more on target but doesn't mean he couldn't also have auditory processing problems as well. Processing isn't only language, either; it includes things like moving from one step to another, figuring out the steps and order in which to do a task, all kinds of things.

OP, about legos/clics/etc, I am not talking about "convincing him to try instructions." He doesn't know how. What I mean is sit down with him and a SMALL project (maybe start with something 2-D, instead of lego) and walk him through step by step, though you can articulate how you're using the instructions so he can later graduate to doing more himself. "The first picture shows a red rectangle and a yellow square. Look for a red rectangle (point to picture)." (hint: if he has a hard time finding the right piece from a pile of 15 or so, that is a visual processing hangup.) "Great, that's exactly the right one!!! Very Happy

Now find a yellow square (show picture)." And so on.

My OT does things like this but I'm not sure the DOE approves it for that reason. She does it to help the kid once they've been approved for more obvious OT issues. Doesn't hurt to try, though. And if you do suspect auditory processing, that's something speech/language therapists can work on. But really, they will be doing these kinds of things anyway - just might help to have more people on board working on it.

You say "a simple instruction such as go get dressed" but that is NOT a simple instruction for a child with this problem. Simple means ONE, CLEAR step. When you feel he can successfully do those then you can mix in some two-step directions gradually. Don't tell him "go get dressed," tell him "Go find socks." Don't worry that you're going to become a drill sargeant; I don't know the exact extent of your child's difficulties (the only way you'll know is as you try and see how far he can go) but odds are good that once he has the socks in his hands he will figure out how to unfold them and put them on - and if he seems to get "lost in space" on the way, a gentler prompt such as gesturing or "socks?" should do it, so you don't have to spend the whole morning saying "do this. do that. do this."

Another idea for him is to sit down at some free/calm time and discuss the steps in some routine. Things like getting dressed are worth learning by heart for their sticking power. At a time when he doesn't need to actually do it, he will probably even be able to tell you many of the things that need to happen. Draw a picture and a key word for each one ("shirt. pants. socks.") Let him help you put them in order - guide with questions ("what needs to come first, shoes or socks?") First of all, he will gain guided practice in what it means to break down a process into steps without the added, distracting burden of needing to do it at the same time. Secondly, you will end up with a book/chart of what to do so in the future you can direct him to look at the first thing, look at the next thing, instead of telling him directly each thing to do, so you're gradually transferring independence to him. Eventually you should be able to go down to just "look at your getting dressed book" and later to "get dressed" and he will know on his own to look at and follow the steps. By then he may even be able to do it without looking, but he can still be guided to look if he gets stuck "Wow, Yitzy, you have your shirt and underwear on! What comes next?"

Lots and lots of positive reinforcement and praise for small successes, please. Life is very overwhelming and frustrating when you can't complete full tasks. Make the small steps rewarding so that he will be able to stick with them enough to ultimately get there.

amother

Indigo

Fri, Jul 03 2015, 3:03 pm

seeker wrote:

I am the new amother again. My dd is two years older than op's and a lot of the small stuff have been overcame BH, though I often feel like a drill Sargeant. (And on the other hand there are also a lot of the things that look worse now because they can no longer be classified as possibly age appropriate.) Once she was older, she did well with a visual step by step chart with incentives I made on the computer for the morning when I can't always be involved in every. single. step.
What other processing disorders are there? How do we test for them?
We live in Brooklyn and were told that the auditory processing test is covered by insurance but that the testers would not do it without separate payment for the report which takes hours and hours to fill out.

seeker

Fri, Jul 03 2015, 4:24 pm

New amother, I so feel you on the age appropriateness thing! When something seems off to you but they brush it off as the kid just being young, so you sit there and watch it go downhill while other kids are moving on...frustrating. Better late than never.

A thorough neuropsychological or psychoeducational testing would diagnose processing problems, but make sure you go to someone who is known to be thorough about learning disorders.

Generally, besides auditory and visual, there's executive functioning and then all other processing tends to be lumped together and the diagnosis would be a general "learning disability" or something. There aren't really other distinct subsets of processing skills. Executive function is like what OP is describing - the ability to plan and execute actions and processes, organization, think about doing for your own body what an executive does in a business - tell all the departments what to do and when. Executive functioning problems are strongly associated with ADHD, though it is possible to have problems with executive function and not have ADHD (I imagine the reverse is true as well but must be very very uncommon because I don't think I've ever seen anyone with ADHD who didn't also have difficulty with EF)

In a case like this, I would not be quick to medicate. I can't say for sure without further discussion or ever seeing the situation in person, but it sounds like there is a lot going on and there is a lot of room for first working on skills and accommodations that have not yet been addressed. In this type of case, I would consider medication only AFTER seeing that other things aren't working. If OP had said that her child can't sit still or can't focus long enough to get through to him, that would be a different story, but it sounds from her description more like the problems in school are due to not being able to follow directions or tolerate frustration, not an inherent inability to behave. See what the counselor, P3, and parenting strategies can accomplish before asking about ADHD (and I sure hope you get a good P3 and not the homework-helper type. Talk to prospectives before starting to see what kind of strategies they have in mind for addressing the lacking skills.)