Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Working Women
Job searching is so degrading
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Denim


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 11:25 am
I'm just so burned out by the search. I've been at it for a few months. You put yourself out there like a beggar, hoping someone will deign to give you so much as a phone call back. Constantly writing new cover letters, filling out the same info again and again in application forms, and all so that you just hear Silence. And when you do hear something you have to put yourself on display, again begging for the chance, for the scrap of a phone call back at the end. I've applied to fewer and fewer jobs lately because I am just so tired and feeling too down to do it all again for probably nothing. I can't handle this anymore!
Back to top

amother
Plum


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 11:56 am
Please keep applying. The economy in America is really great (assuming you are in America). And you know what, the general economy in Israel is also great, from what I hear, but I don't know the ins and outs of the chareidi women economy there.

It's like shidduch dating, house hunting, and many other tasks. You need to be in it to win it. And the longer you do it, the more you know about it, and the better chance you have of succeeding. (I dated 87 guys, I looked at around 27 houses, I applied to around 100 jobs, maybe more. And don't get me started on babysitters Smile But B"H after a long while I was able to get my ducks in a row).

I think that the longer you look, the more realistic you become about what's out there. For example, most jobs don't offer "Friday off" or "part time" the minute you walk in (I've still never made it to that promised land but B"H I am enjoying my job). Jobs in the suburb pay a fraction of jobs in Manhattan, at least for my field.

Anyway, good luck and kudos to you for keeping on trying.
Back to top

youngishbear




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 12:01 pm
I agree the silence is the worst. How weird is it to add "please acknowledge receipt of this email/fax/letter" at the end? Just so you hear back something.

I hope you aren't really begging for a chance and it was just a figure of speech. Desperation is not very becoming in an interview, I would imagine.

I hope you find the right job soon.
Back to top

amother
Plum


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 12:04 pm
And one more thing. Network. Try to meet real people to ask them advice about your field or about what they do. I did a number of "informational interviews" on the phone and in person with people in my field. They didn't have jobs for me but that wasn't the point. They gave me lots of tips and inside scoops about people, companies, salaries, etc.

At one point when I was out of a job for 6 months I asked a rabbi if I should take Adderall to help me concentrate at work. He said no, but I should regularly ask my supervisors for feedback. So I do that now as well, and it has worked out. You can ask the jobs that you interview at for feedback (or your recruiter if you are using one).

Do you also use LinkedIn? My husband found it to be a very good tool when he was looking for a job.

Lastly, many of the women on imamother do piece work, where they are paid per hour or per case/design/task. It's all fine and good and offers flexibility, but in my experience that's not where the steady income comes from. My experience has been that it is better for me to take a real job, with steady hours and steady pay. I've seen too many per task people failing to make ends meet.
Back to top

amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 12:44 pm
New imamother on the job hunt. My field it is so hard to find anything. I am not looking for the perfect job- just an interview or something!
But especially in the frum world it is difficult (I am not asking for one just in a frum environment. While it has it's perks, I can manage just fine anywhere else. If I can do secular regular graduate school, internships etc I can do fine). Its just who I speak with on a more regular basis. Someone I met got a big position who has the same credentials as I do. No interview process was done: they knew the family. But everyone I ask doesn't know anyone hiring as they just all hire friends/family and announce after!

I keep putting myself out there. Dress up for interviews- but they had 100 applicants for the job (as per the website that you apply through). I just feel so beaten down.
Back to top

Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 1:40 pm
Sorry to hear.

No, don't put "please acknowledge receipt of this email/fax/letter" on any communication. That will bring an automatic instant negative. They have the task of getting someone in there, and they do not owe any applicant an answer. At all. Not one bit. They DO owe common courtesy to an interviewee, and there are laws about what they can't ask in an interview, but they would go broke if they answered every applicant. There is no moral or legal obligation to answer an applicant.

Do not apply to anything just to apply, just to be doing something. No. Only apply where you would realistically be a very good fit, in terms of who you are, and where it would also work out for YOU. Mass applying is a waste of your time, and gets you jaded. Better to not apply to anything, than to the wrong thing "just in case". There is no "just in case".

You are either what they need, or you are not. Don't worry. There is a place where they need someone exactly like you.

Analyze where you belong. They are casting for a play.

No, a bearded gentleman of forty can't play Juliet.

They want to know three things, and this is classic: can you do it, will you do it, and will you fit in here.

To illustrate:

There are people who can, but won't. They are skittish, inconsistent, distracted. Oops.

There are people who want to, but can't. They can't take the pressure, will arrive late, aren't used to the environment. They are not stupid, but this particular task is beyond them.

There are people who can, and will, but won't fit in. They are either temperamentally demanding, or, just plain too different, and the other workers won't relax around them. However such people do indeed get hired sometimes, IF they match a segment of the customer base, who is that type, TOO. I once had a job where I was the only Jew, because they had enough Jewish customers to need someone familiar for them to talk to. That was fine. I made it my business to get along swimmingly with the other workers, who were very different from me in many ways.

1) Apply selectively and intelligently.
2) Look great and have a good attitude. They don't exist to meet your needs. Understand they need to hear how you will make up for leaving early Fridays and holidays. You are useful because you will be there on the Xtian holidays when the others are home. Show you have thought out how to make it work.

Yes. Get someone on the phone and have as long a phone conversation as possible.

Talk and talk. Try to keep them talking. Then and only then, ask permission to send your resume "just for your files". That's the proper phraseology, because they CANNOT ADMIT they have a job opening. They will then call you to come in. You are now someone they already know, sort of, from the long conversation. Manner, speech, tone of voice, rhythm of response, they know all that now. Now you have a good chance.

If they ask when you want to come in, say "how is tomorrow at 10?" They will be fresh, have had their coffee, by 10. You don't want 9. They are still frazzled from their commute. After lunch they are tired. 10 is best.

Smile very sweetly at the other people in the office who will really make the decision about whether you last there.

There are a lot of personal questions that it is illegal to ask you. They will wait patiently to see if you have the wit to offer the desired information anyway, unasked.

If you don't offer it, it hurts your chances. OF COURSE they want to know your personal life situation and how it will impact your attendance. State it quietly and briefly. Don't start to gush about your children or they will decide you are more interested in family than this job. That might be true, but don't let it show.

If you have the skills, their task is to weed out people who are temperament ally difficult.

They are going to be facing their higher-ups with the results of their hiring process. Making a good hire is big points for them, and making a hire who doesn't work out will get them in big trouble themselves.

People can tell what you think of the place. If you love it and wish you could be there, they will see that, and hire you. Don't bother faking that. Only interview at places you really would like to go every day. Careful. Be honest with yourself about that.
Back to top

WriterMom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 1:56 pm
Not much advice, but I can sympathize, it is incredibly demoralizing and depressing.

Try not to lose hope - I applied for many jobs for which I was totally qualified, and never even heard back, and then applied for one that was way above my qualifications, that I hoped I'd be eligible for in about a decade, on my adviser's recommendation ... and got it. So apply for lots of jobs that are realistic, but don't be afraid to aim high occasionally too!

Putting together a complicated application and hearing nothing is INCREDIBLY awful, and I think it's dreadfully rude of the companies; particularly when you apply online, it would literally take them five minutes to send an email to all the unsuccessful applicants saying "the position has been filled," so you're no longer waiting and hoping - but I agree with Dolly, you really mustn't ask them for feedback or confirmation because it looks needy and that is never good in this process.

Good luck!
Back to top

amother
Denim


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 1:59 pm
Op here. I'm already doing everything I'm supposed to. I'm getting help from the career office at the university I went to, so I know I'm getting good guidance. I definitely don't come off as begging, I'm just using the word to describe how I feel. I don't think I'm being picky or unrealistic. I don't need a frum environment and I don't expect to make 100k working 4 hours a day or anything like that. I have some requirements and won't apply for anything that looks like it wouldn't work for me. But I'm finding enough that seems good. Nothing is sticking though, and it's depressing.
Back to top

Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 2:11 pm
It is SUMMER.

It is the season of THE HECK WITH THIS.

NOBODY is serious now. They act it but they are pretending. Their minds are elsewhere.

Position yourself right and when it's September they will start to make decisions again.

It's NOT you.

You will be fine.
Back to top

amother
Plum


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 4:25 pm
You're doing everything already? In my experience, the school's career office is staffed by many unsuccessful people who can't get real jobs so they come to help with resume writing. That is not the "beginning and ending" of job searching. And neither is submitting job applications online, if you are a new grad with no substantial experience (and no particular area of expertise).

As Dolly mentioned, it's the summer, and in my office everyone is on vacation. What about the following ideas:

1) Take an unpaid internship with someone that you know in the industry. (I did that when I came out of graduate school).

2) Have your parents call their friends to give you a basic, low paying entry level job. (I did that when I came out of undergraduate).

3) Pound the pavement setting up meetings with contacts in the industry. (Did that).

4) Find a trade organization and go to their lectures.

Just like the other amother mentioned, there is a lot of "who you know" that goes on.

Anonymous internet applications work well later on when you already have tons of experience and have developed a niche area of expertise.
Back to top

amother
Denim


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 4:48 pm
Plum, doing everything you said. And yes, the career department is good, they're not just glorified resume writers. This isn't my first job. I have years of experience and was recently laid off.
Back to top

ahuva06




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 5:04 pm
OP, Tomche Shabbos has a branch that helps people find jobs. I know a bunch of people who reached out to them and are very happy now! If you're interested in getting in touch you can email jobs@tomcheshabbos.org.
Good luck!
Back to top

Mrs Bissli




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 5:20 pm
OP, already many good advices here so little to add from me. Though just please remember that you may have repeated the same 'elevator talk' sales pitch 100 times, but for the person on the receiving end it is the first time. So please don't feel fatigued or burned out, enjoy and cherish every single encounter, you never know what it leads to. Hatzlacha.
Back to top

amother
Denim


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 6:03 pm
Becca- thanks, I will try that. Mrs. Bissli- for all the burn-out I'm feeling, I've only been searching like 3 months. I'm so terrified, what if this drags on for more months? I guess I just need to try not to get caught up in a cycle of negativity...
Back to top

Dolly Welsh




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 7:16 pm
Yes, that is the task.
Back to top

amother
Turquoise


 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 10:07 pm
OP, for what are you looking?

Yes. Rofl, was thinking same thing. Maybe someone here can help network, provide a job or other if we know what OP is seeking.
Back to top

ROFL




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jul 16 2015, 11:27 pm
Can you tell us what field your looking in? You never know, someone may just have something for you. After all we are also " family"
Back to top

imaima




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 17 2015, 7:22 am
Why do you find job-searching degrading? I am sure you have what to offer and if you don't get hired, the company will lose out, not you! Keep a positive outlook!

if they dont have the decency to call you back it means that this is not the right workplace for you. Keep searching!
Good luck!
Back to top

PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 17 2015, 9:38 am
OP, I had the same job for many years. When I started looking for a new one , I didnt realize that HR uses an algorithm now that searches your resume for words that literally match the job description. Don't know if that's relevant to
you though.
Next--Dolly raised several important points. They may want to know about children (in terms of possible absences from work) but aren't supposed to ask. I've interviewed several candidates recently who handled this very well. They managed to bring up their excellent child care ("I'm a little compulsive about having backup plans so im lucky to have excellent backup child care" or the fact that their husbsnds handle the kids getting to school in the morning). Also, some jobs aren't written the way they actually are. A higher up wants the job description to read XXXX, but the immediate supervisor knows the real needs. Apply widely and you may be surprised.
Finally, yes. If you give us an idea of your field, we may be able to help.
Back to top

amother
Silver


 

Post Fri, Jul 17 2015, 9:47 am
I think it's really important to keep in mind that hashem will match you with the right position. When things aren't working out, please remember that there is a big picture that we are not aware of, and therefore a reason for what's going on. IYH the right opportunity will present itself soon.
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Working Women

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Moving to LKWD - work remote or look for new job
by amother
5 Today at 4:32 pm View last post
I lost my job!!!!!
by amother
5 Yesterday at 9:31 am View last post
Summer job
by amother
2 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 12:14 pm View last post
Searching for unique High School
by amother
35 Mon, Mar 25 2024, 11:39 pm View last post
Searching for Online Plus Size Cheap Mother Bride Dress
by amother
1 Thu, Mar 21 2024, 5:40 am View last post