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November




 
 
 


Post  Mon, Jan 18 2016, 4:54 pm
EmpireState wrote:

Does the constant smoking on the show bother anyone else??

I actually think they addressed the smoking in this episode with brilliance in the scene in the taxi. They showed how second-nature it is for these men to smoke. Even when asked not to, they almost can't help how automatic it is. It's an integral part of the persona.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 12:40 am
November wrote:
I agree with so many of the comments. I have to say that the end was bittersweet because of Shulem. Yes everyone around him seems to be growing and forgiving and being there for each other. But for Shulem, the "ikar" is the hair and what everyone in Geulah is saying about his deceased wife. He doesn't realize that in buying and then changing the painting, he's forcing a wedge between himself and his precious son who is here and living and needs his approval.
I thought all of the conversations about being accepted/acceptable vs your loved ones needing you to change set so many things so well. What a beautiful episode.


Funny, I davka thought that that scene represented Shulem concilliating himself to Kiveh's art. Beforehand he was shown with a flame in hand as if poised to burn and destroy the picture but he couldn't bring himself to do it. Painting over the hair was his way of bridging between the two worlds and coming to terms with his son's vocation. It's not wholesale acceptance but it's the best he can do, for now. Don't forget that Shulem is from an older generation. It's much harder for him to grow and change but he does somewhat, as the dog scenes also reveals.
It was indeed a beautiful episode and a wonderful series. I hope it has another season but they seemed to wrap up so many story lines that I'm not sure. One story that was just left hanging is that of the friend who was in the psychiatric hospital after meeting his birth mother.I was surprised that that was not developed further. Also, Shulem has yet to meet a second soul mate.....
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Bruria




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 12:55 am
Does anyone know if there will be another season or another episode ?? I can't stop thinking about this show! It can't be the end!
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November




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 1:01 am
etky wrote:
Funny, I davka thought that that scene represented Shulem concilliating himself to Kiveh's art. Beforehand he was shown with a flame in hand as if poised to burn and destroy the picture but he couldn't bring himself to do it. Painting over the hair was his way of bridging between the two worlds and coming to terms with his son's vocation. It's not wholesale acceptance but it's the best he can do, for now. Don't forget that Shulem is from an older generation. It's much harder for him to grow and change but he does somewhat, as the dog scenes also reveals.

I can appreciate your interpretation, Etky.
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amother




Brown


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 7:14 am
etky wrote:
Funny, I davka thought that that scene represented Shulem concilliating himself to Kiveh's art. Beforehand he was shown with a flame in hand as if poised to burn and destroy the picture but he couldn't bring himself to do it. Painting over the hair was his way of bridging between the two worlds and coming to terms with his son's vocation. It's not wholesale acceptance but it's the best he can do, for now. Don't forget that Shulem is from an older generation. It's much harder for him to grow and change but he does somewhat, as the dog scenes also reveals.


I agree in part, because I do think we see a lot of growth of Shulem here. Maybe more than anyone. I'm the one who wrote about grief above, and I think it has less to do with society and more with the loss of Devorah herself. Remember how he told Akiva how pained she was when her tichel once slipped back in front of guests? A lot of what he was doing was for her kavod, but at a certain point he realized that she was no longer there and Akiva was, and that this relationship had to take precedence. It was particularly poignant when he's running home through the streets of Geula with the painting and says something like, a grave is not what matters, what's important is important... and in the end he came to that realization that living in the past and honoring the memory of person who isn't alive (especially when you don't know what they would want) at the expense of someone who is not right, and this was a big moment for him grief wise.

I also think he saw in the painting how Akiva was undergoing a grieving process too (how he used art to work through his grief), whereas even though they were together all the time, Shulem and Akiva never really related to each other's experiences of that loss.

I also think he realized how AKiva was missing that parental figure, and how he hadn't been showing him any tenderness, only a kind of parental strong arm, and how desperate Akiva was for that motherly love. By painting the tichel, he was at the same time showing tenderness to Akiva and tenderness to Devorah, which is a major evolution on so many levels.

You don't need to see him meeting another spouse to know that now he is capable of loving again in way he wasn't until now.
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 7:41 am
amother wrote:
I agree in part, because I do think we see a lot of growth of Shulem here. Maybe more than anyone. I'm the one who wrote about grief above, and I think it has less to do with society and more with the loss of Devorah herself. Remember how he told Akiva how pained she was when her tichel once slipped back in front of guests? A lot of what he was doing was for her kavod, but at a certain point he realized that she was no longer there and Akiva was, and that this relationship had to take precedence. It was particularly poignant when he's running home through the streets of Geula with the painting and says something like, a grave is not what matters, what's important is important... and in the end he came to that realization that living in the past and honoring the memory of person who isn't alive (especially when you don't know what they would want) at the expense of someone who is not right, and this was a big moment for him grief wise.

I also think he saw in the painting how Akiva was undergoing a grieving process too (how he used art to work through his grief), whereas even though they were together all the time, Shulem and Akiva never really related to each other's experiences of that loss.

I also think he realized how AKiva was missing that parental figure, and how he hadn't been showing him any tenderness, only a kind of parental strong arm, and how desperate Akiva was for that motherly love. By painting the tichel, he was at the same time showing tenderness to Akiva and tenderness to Devorah, which is a major evolution on so many levels.

You don't need to see him meeting another spouse to know that now he is capable of loving again in way he wasn't until now.


Yes, the scene was so powerful because of the tenderness - a quality so incongruous with the gruff Shulem hitherto portrayed in the series. The painting was a catalyst that evoked these unfamiliar feelings within him.
I think that one of the side themes of the show is the power of art -of all creative outlets actually, and how enriching and necessary their fulfillment is to the human experience. The entire Shteisel family is creative, each in their own way: Kive with his art, Tzvi Arye with his singing, Gitte with her cooking, Shulem delights in storytelling to his students and even Dvoreh, when she appears, is often sewing and embroidering.
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ChutzPAh




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 8:57 am
Where can you watch episode 12? It's not on shtisel.com.
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 3:31 pm
ChutzPAh wrote:
Where can you watch episode 12? It's not on shtisel.com.
try dailymotion and put shtisel, in hebrew, into the search there.
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November




 
 
 


Post  Tue, Jan 19 2016, 4:21 pm
I don't know- I'm still struggling with the painting over the painting scene.
Why did Shulem feel that it was more important that this painting not be on display as is than to be buried next to his wife?
How did this action mesh with the talk he gave Kiva about being accepted in a relationship?
Shulem was not at the exhibit, and he caused Kiva's best work to not be on display. So how was that going to be for his relationship with kiva?
I felt that by the end of the season, Shulem was still grieving and is not going to be able to move on and get married again anytime soon. I felt that Kiva would be able to, and his other kids were dealt great challenges that they overcame and forgave. I don't think that Shulem has forgiven his wife for dying. And it's getting him stuck in more ways that he even realizes.
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CEF




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 4:03 am
November wrote:
I don't know- I'm still struggling with the painting over the painting scene.
Why did Shulem feel that it was more important that this painting not be on display as is than to be buried next to his wife?
How did this action mesh with the talk he gave Kiva about being accepted in a relationship?
Shulem was not at the exhibit, and he caused Kiva's best work to not be on display. So how was that going to be for his relationship with kiva?
I felt that by the end of the season, Shulem was still grieving and is not going to be able to move on and get married again anytime soon. I felt that Kiva would be able to, and his other kids were dealt great challenges that they overcame and forgave. I don't think that Shulem has forgiven his wife for dying. And it's getting him stuck in more ways that he even realizes.


I completely agree, for me the painting episode with shulem was the pinnacle of this season. On the one hand, I felt it endearing that tznius and halacha is so ingrained in shulem that he would take such offence about devorah being portrayed like that (personally I hadn't even noticed the hair and that this was a problem - it's clearly not as ingrained in me then). On the other hand, he has clearly not understood the reason for kive's pursuit of art, and also why kive painted his mother (=kive's own grief process), and that if anything, he should be inspired to find ways to work through his grief too. The Shtisel family hasn't dedicated a sefer Torah in her name already, have they? There are a thousand ways to give her neshoma an aliyah - but I'm not sure how shulem has done that in practice yet.

A different question to the crowd - have you thought about how they would design a season 3?
I predict a long wait (!) and then a whole new branding with new heads of families, I.e. kive and libi as parents and ruchomi and chanineh as parents, with Shulem of course still the patriarch but maybe he'll take more of a 'background role' (if that is possible for him!!) like his mother did... Maybe ruchomi's siblings will take on bigger roles?

Ideas?
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etky




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 4:22 am
CEF wrote:
I completely agree, for me the painting episode with shulem was the pinnacle of this season. On the one hand, I felt it endearing that tznius and halacha is so ingrained in shulem that he would take such offence about devorah being portrayed like that (personally I hadn't even noticed the hair and that this was a problem - it's clearly not as ingrained in me then). On the other hand, he has clearly not understood the reason for kive's pursuit of art, and also why kive painted his mother (=kive's own grief process), and that if anything, he should be inspired to find ways to work through his grief too. The Shtisel family hasn't dedicated a sefer Torah in her name already, have they? There are a thousand ways to give her neshoma an aliyah - but I'm not sure how shulem has done that in practice yet.

A different question to the crowd - have you thought about how they would design a season 3?
I predict a long wait (!) and then a whole new branding with new heads of families, I.e. kive and libi as parents and ruchomi and chanineh as parents, with Shulem of course still the patriarch but maybe he'll take more of a 'background role' (if that is possible for him!!) like his mother did... Maybe ruchomi's siblings will take on bigger roles?

Ideas?


I think it was a much more personal motivation than halacha- he remembered how Devoreh had been so pained by having just an inch of her hair revealed by mistake when her tichel slipped in front of guests that she cried an entire day. He couldn't bear the thought that her hair should now be on display for everyone for eternity through the painting. He viewed it as a disgrace of her memory. By ammending the painting by covering her hair he is also bringing about a rectification, a tikun of an experience that was traumatic to Devoreh - it is a gesture of love on his part.
And no- he doesn't really understand Kive's artistic drive but he understands and ultimately respects that this painting is Kive's way of processing his grief and that is why he doesn't destroy the painting. Perhaps it is the beginning of his coming to terms with Kive's art.
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real israeli




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 6:05 am
I only watched the last 5 episodes but can someone explain what Gitty needs to forgive her husband "blev shalem" for?
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amother




Brown


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 8:07 am
real israeli wrote:
I only watched the last 5 episodes but can someone explain what Gitty needs to forgive her husband "blev shalem" for?


The whole first season was about how he abandoned the family and religion when he went away for work and decided not to come back and (purportedly) had an affair with a non-Jew
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sabich




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 8:54 am
I so appreciate reading all of your posts. None of my friends have watched it yet, and I so enjoy this show, having your insights and ideas makes it even more enjoyable! Very Happy Hoping they will make a season 3, such a lot of material there and the acting is second to none, superb. Thank you kind ladies for posting links and comments.
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November




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 10:00 am
etky wrote:
I think it was a much more personal motivation than halacha- he remembered how Devoreh had been so pained by having just an inch of her hair revealed by mistake when her tichel slipped in front of guests that she cried an entire day. He couldn't bear the thought that her hair should now be on display for everyone for eternity through the painting. He viewed it as a disgrace of her memory. By ammending the painting by covering her hair he is also bringing about a rectification, a tikun of an experience that was traumatic to Devoreh - it is a gesture of love on his part.
And no- he doesn't really understand Kive's artistic drive but he understands and ultimately respects that this painting is Kive's way of processing his grief and that is why he doesn't destroy the painting. Perhaps it is the beginning of his coming to terms with Kive's art.

I think Shulem is so wrapped up in his own stuff, making his deceased wife more perfect than she actually was, that he cannot even fathom what Kiva is up to painting this picture. Remember that Kiva reminds him of how his mother used to get on Shulem's case? For Kiva, it's not even a portrait of his real mother- it's a memory of a memory; it's him, it's not him. It's just process. That's why the hair really doesn't matter to him. Shulem is so wrapped up with his wife and his memories and her honor that he can't hear Kiva's explanation. He can't appreciate subtleties at all. It's not clear to me why he did not destroy the painting- whether it was actually because he appreciated Kiva's work or couldn't bring himself to destroy what he considered to be a painting of his wife. I really didn't get the sense that he was at all coming to grips with Kiva or even having Kiva in mind as he painted over the painting. It will never be a painting of Kiva's anymore. It is not in his exhibit and it's got a big blue blob of paint on it now.
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amother




Brown


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 11:37 am
November wrote:
I think Shulem is so wrapped up in his own stuff, making his deceased wife more perfect than she actually was, that he cannot even fathom what Kiva is up to painting this picture. Remember that Kiva reminds him of how his mother used to get on Shulem's case? For Kiva, it's not even a portrait of his real mother- it's a memory of a memory; it's him, it's not him. It's just process. That's why the hair really doesn't matter to him. Shulem is so wrapped up with his wife and his memories and her honor that he can't hear Kiva's explanation. He can't appreciate subtleties at all. It's not clear to me why he did not destroy the painting- whether it was actually because he appreciated Kiva's work or couldn't bring himself to destroy what he considered to be a painting of his wife. I really didn't get the sense that he was at all coming to grips with Kiva or even having Kiva in mind as he painted over the painting. It will never be a painting of Kiva's anymore. It is not in his exhibit and it's got a big blue blob of paint on it now.


The proof against what you are saying is that he was moved by it. That's what art is-- it doesn't matter what it means to the artist, it's about how it makes the viewer feel. And it made him feel something. We may never know what, and it doesn't really matter.

What happened to Akiva expresses the same dichotomy between artist intention and viewer perception-- his television interview, and his loneliness at the exhibit, and more broadly everything he experienced this season vis a vis his art was about Akiva the "chareidi artist" vs. Akiva the multifaceted person who knew how to express himself through art.

At the end of the day we all bleed, and it doesn't matter what clothing or what language we put on that. It's the outer trappings that make us different, but not the core.
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suremom




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 12:06 pm
I wonder if there will be another season. everything was wrapped up beautifully in season 2. season 1 had no closures so another season was expected. also, in season 1 after lipa spoke to ruchami about why he left (needing to be alone, without anyone to care for) it made it sound like having affair was only a rumor as why would he do it if he ran away just to be alone? also, when he called there was a cross by his bed making it seem like he was in a monastery where there are absolutely no relationships bet. genders.
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WastingTime




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 2:11 pm
I thought the finale was a nice closure to most stories. In the Lipa-Gitty scene, did anyone else notice that they seem to sleep with plastic under their sheets---it was so crinkly in their beds LOL. And if you actually got up in middle of the night to go for a drive- would you put on your sheitel? But the idea of it was nice. I think Lipa really shows a lot of transformation in this season--- he does what Gitty wants first with Chanina (eventhough she takes it back), then with using their money etc. I loved the dog story with Yossele because it is showing the chessed streak of Lipa (whatever happened to the doggy!?!?). And Gitty was very strong in forgiving Lipa.

I like it that Libi stands up to her father and sees that he's a creep.

I agree that it could be there won't be another season. Things got wrapped up, and there will have to be a double wedding!
It would be nice if there was!
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penguin




 
 
 


Post  Wed, Jan 20 2016, 2:15 pm
But did you notice for all his interesting reactions (e.g. telling Kiva that if he didn't come to teach because he was looking for an art gallery to sell his pictures, he was fired, dealing with Nuchem not coming to see Bubbe Malka etc) he never quite lost it & yelled as he did in the last episode.
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amother




Brown


Post  Thu, Jan 21 2016, 8:29 am
suremom wrote:
season 1 after lipa spoke to ruchami about why he left (needing to be alone, without anyone to care for) it made it sound like having affair was only a rumor as why would he do it if he ran away just to be alone? also, when he called there was a cross by his bed making it seem like he was in a monastery where there are absolutely no relationships bet. genders.



Personally, I don't think he necessarily had an affair. But it's possible. That's the thing-- we have no idea what he did, just like Gitti doesn't. So we can give him the benefit of the doubt/look the other way, or come up with outlandish scenarios.

I don't think having a cross on the wall is unusual for South America. Catholics put crosses everywhere.
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