Was this a kiddush hashem or chillul hashem?

amother

Mauve

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 3:21 pm

My husband was driving on coney island in bklyn last friday and it was near zero degrees. He had our mini van and he was looking at each bus stop to see if he can pick up bochrim or other frum people who were waiting in the cold for the bus. He was able to pick up several people from the bus stops. The problem was that as he pulled over and asked the frum people if they needed a ride, some of the non jews approached the van as well and wanted a ride. My husband didn't want to give rides to random strangers and didn't let them in. They obviously were upset.

amother

Azure

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 3:23 pm

Ouch, that sounds like it could cause a Chillul Hashem. Yes, we Jews need to look out for each other but we shouldn't make others think we don't care about them because they aren't Jewish. It seems rather elitist.

It's a beautiful thing to offer people rides, but to say no, because you aren't Jewish is quite rude.
He could have said, "I'm sorry, I know these people but don't feel comfortable having strangers in my car"

pickle321

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 4:04 pm

I really hope he did say something to the extent of I know these people as a previous poster said. Otherwise I think it's a chilul Hashem.

It's a shame because he had wonderful intentions and was trying to do a chesed. I have to agree though that picking up strangers, even frum Jews is dangerous. Next time maybe he's better off going to bus stops and handing out hot drinks to Jews and any non Jews that are waiting too.

amother

Mauve

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 4:10 pm

MrsDash wrote:

Yes because frum Jews are not capable of being dangerous. shock

Watch the news tonight, or the next 100 nights. You likely will not hear of a single incident of violence involving jews. So yes, I'll take my chances with frum jews.

greenfire

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 6:51 pm

what about the jew that doesn't look jewish - or maybe is not 'frum'

you're really going to pick & choose who to be kind to ?!?!?!

I pick up people in cleveland all the time ... [or at least when I had my car] black/mocha/white/jewish - old/medium/young ...

last year in the crazy brooklyn cold my sister opened her car window & gave a stranger her gloves

it's not mivtzaim - "excuse me are you jewish" great then I get a mitzva Rolling Eyes

I wonder if leiby kletzky thinks it's okay to go with a "jew" - oh right he can no longer tell us because he did go with a murderer who portrayed himself to be 'frum'

justmarried

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 9:53 pm

It's a fact that its more dangerous picking up a non Jew in Brooklyn. Just look at the statistics and crime rates. Picking up some Bochurim or other frum looking Jews is risky too, but its a very low risk. Picking up total strangers who are not Jewish is a high risk. This does not mean that a Jew cannot be bad, or that all non Jews are bad. It just has to be worth the chance.

Years ago as a 18 year old working girl I used to take the city bus every day. That bus line was extremely unreliable and it was no fun waiting in bad weather. Over the two years I worked there, I only had 2 people pick me up - and one of them did a few times. It was very kind of him. I even figured out that he was my neighbors uncle. But I never expected or was upset with people who wouldn't do it.

However, in your husbands case it just needs to be done carefully and with tact. Maybe he shouldn't stop when there are a lot of non Jews, or only when the Jewish person is standing to the side alone. Helping any and all people is very special, but should not be done at the expense of your personal safety.

amother

Mauve

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 10:04 pm

greenfire wrote:

I wonder if leiby kletzky thinks it's okay to go with a "jew" - oh right he can no longer tell us because he did go with a murderer who portrayed himself to be 'frum'

So you found a case from a few years ago where tragically a jew was violent with another jew. So that makes it all the same for you? With that sort of logic it's impossible to have a reasonable discussion with you. You can't possibly say with a straight face that a person picking up random yeshiva bochrim from a bus stop is taking the same risk as if he would pick up high school kids from public school.

MrsDash

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 10:19 pm

amother wrote:

Watch the news tonight, or the next 100 nights. You likely will not hear of a single incident of violence involving jews. So yes, I'll take my chances with frum jews.

Doesn't mean a stranger should take their chances with you. If my kid was approached by a man in a van offering to drive him home, I'd hope he run the other way regardless of their religion.

greenfire

Tue, Feb 16 2016, 11:40 pm

amother wrote:

really I think I said it with a straight face

I know of not so random yeshiva bochurim who robbed their friend's bubby's house while she was away for pesach ...

I know of not so random men with kapotahs and/or black hats who molested children ...

I also know of a random man [not jewish I might add] who gave me a lift to my friend's levaya when I was exhausted & freezing from traveling through the night to make it there

one only has to be street smart to see the difference or at minimal the way to go about the incident described in your op in a mentschlich manner

notshanarishona

Wed, Feb 17 2016, 12:48 am

Honestly, I would be scared to take any stranger for a ride, Jewish looking or not.
You know how many stories there are of criminals wearing a kippah to get Jews to help them??
This is a crazy world.

But point B, lets say you are offering people rides anyway, yes it is rude to go where a group of people are standing and in front of them only offer to Jewish people.

chani8

Wed, Feb 17 2016, 1:23 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Would you think it rude for an arab women to pull over and pick up other arab women and not offer the jewish woman a ride? How about an asian man who pulls over and offers other asians a ride? A woman who offers only other women a ride? It's 'too bad' for those who want a ride, but not necessarily judge worthy.

DrMom

Wed, Feb 17 2016, 4:56 am

notshanarishona wrote:

I agree with all of this and similar comments.

But to be fair:

OP, I think your husband had wonderful intentions. You are lucky to be married to someone who is always thinking about how to help others.

mille

Wed, Feb 17 2016, 7:24 am

I don't really get this. A random yeshiva bochur is still a stranger... Same as non-Jewish strangers. I don't see the logic that they are less of a stranger and less risky simply because they are frum. Super faulty logic there.

You don't hear of many stories of violent Jews vs other ethnicities in the news because Jews are a very small minority. We make up several million out of 330 million in the United States. Of course we won't dominate the news. Neither do native americans, but it would also be silly to say violence never happens with that population as well.

I would not pick up a stranger, Jewish or not (and, indeed, when we're upstate in the summer, we fly by all the frum Jews looking to hitch-hike - not that they'd accept a ride from us probably, they'd assume we're non jews LOL

). I personally think it's more of a chillul hashem to offer to only the visibly Jewish/frum at a bus stop and then close your door to the non-Jewish. Unless you ACTUALLY knew the Jewish people - it's very obviously saying "I don't trust you simply because you are not Jewish".