Censorship of non-Jewish Books

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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Do you/would you take your children to the public library? (or let them go themselves)

No, I bring books home for them from the public library.

[ 3 ]

Yes, no restrictions.

10%

[ 4 ]

Yes, and I check to see what they're reading.

65%

[ 25 ]

No, I don't want them reading secular books.

15%

[ 6 ]

Total Votes : 38

sarahd

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 2:43 pm

There isn't too much Jewish literature that I'd want my children to read (cotton candy for the mind, I think they call it) - for all the reason above - most of it is very poorly written, every "action" story I've read has very little tochen to recommend it - or hashkafic problems - or is a copy of a secular book with Jewish names. I wouldn't want my child reading much secular literature either, even if I went to the library and picked out stuff, because once you start you develop a taste for well-written stuff and then it's hard to draw the line. I think I'm going to have a problem....

amother

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 4:03 pm

I think it is impressive that you have really thought this all through, and you have a valid philosophy, and reasoning. But, I admit, I really don't understand how you can cut yourself off from literature that way. Some say if you are too stict it can have a bad affect- but I agree that that doen't mean you should just let everything in- all it means is you have to have your standards, but as your kids grow up, you leave some (not unlimited) room for them to wiggle, and figure things out on their own. The more important thing, in my opinion, is to have a relationship of communication- so that your children will want to come and discuss things with you. They will realize if something is innapropriate and come talk to you about it- and it's a good opportunity to discuss it more deeply. Those are the discussions that shape a persons values.
But, while I don't think being scared that your children will "go off" is a valid reason to allow them to read anything, I think there is another point in reading a wider variety of books. (not unlimited trash but more than you are talking about). I just that a lot of books discuss things that happen in life. Maybe some people are so sheltered they don't have so many issues to deal with- but that's not what my life was ever like. So, if a book deals with something in an appropriate way whats wrong with that? One author that come to mind (not for children but for older teens or adults) is Rochelle Krich- she writes books that deal with real issues without being trashy. Like her last book deals with the dangers of the internet. I'm not understanding what would be wrong with reading a book like that. And I'm not saying people should get their values from the books- rather that they can serve as a catylist for deeper thinking about an issue wether yo agree or not.

morningstar

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 4:05 pm

Hisorerus, without getting into the discussion of what should or should not be read, the best way to ensure your child does not have a "ta'aveh" to read ____ ( fill in what you dislike here) is to run a home where these kinds of books are never found, and where this kind of reading is never encouraged, and as much as possible to find schools which discourage this kind of reading as well. On the other hand, this method is not foolproof.

If you had a kid who really loved to read this stuff, and was a voracious reader, I doubt this conversation would stop her. At a certain point, you would have to decide whether this was the battle that you wanted to fight.

(Much of raising teenagers involves choosing your battles.)

goldrose

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 4:57 pm

oh, and another point - theres a good chance she'll say to herself "my mother did it and turned out okay, I can do it too" and dont forget the people hate being controlled, so if it's a matter of "I let you/ I dont let you" I'd expect a rebellion.

hisorerus

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 5:06 pm

My point was, with this type of discussion going on, and this openness, she should NOT feel like she needs to read them behind my back. She hopefully understands my reasoning (after I explain it to her, obviously) and when she's older, she will respect it hopefully to some extent.

Even if I only keep her off of it until she is 16, I will feel like I accomplished something.

I'm picking on books specifically because I see where it hurt me to have read so much. And yes, today I can only read Chassidishe books and be OK. Even as a child I reread books.

Nothing against Libby Lazewnik, Chas Veshalom. I think her books are great, the writing is some of the best out there. But just as I'd rather my kids not hear Uncle Moishy, I'd rather they not read her books- at least not until they have solid Hashkafos and can read them with the necessary grain of salt.

I hope this conversation doesn't come across as overly forbidding, that's what I was hoping to avoid. The tone I wanted was YOU CAN DO BETTER than reading that, but I understand, and let's try to find a way to keep you happy but with the best tochen possible.

Why can't you be strict with children? You have no problem saying NO theater, NO alcohol, NO drugs. Why can't I draw the line earlier, as long as I'm willing to find substitutes?

didan

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 5:09 pm

B"H

hisorerus wrote:

Why can't I draw the line earlier, as long as I'm willing to find substitutes?

You certainly can, and you sound like you're on the right track!

(P.S. I'm in full agreement with you and plan to try to do the same with my kids.)

Motek

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 5:14 pm

random thoughts:

well-thought-out hisorerus!

Quote:

(Obviously, I haven't reached the stage in life yet where this is necessary.

obvious?

I know you have a baby, but why is that obvious to others?

Quote:

it sounds like you're very upset about something.

It looks like you feel very strongly about this issue. I think you're feeling left out that everyone else is allowed to and I don't let you.

You feel like you're missing out by reading only Lubavitch books.

What would you like to happen?

these lines drive me nuts! straight out of the parenting books is right, and I don't like it

question - is it true that EVERY GIRL in her class reads novels? maybe check it out. Kids are notorious for saying EVERYBODY when they want to do something

question: why is she in a school where every other girl reads novels but you don't want your daughter to read them, sounds like she's in the wrong school. It's not fair to put her in a school where she is the oddball and you have to make concessions so she meets standards lower than your own.

hisorerus

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 5:22 pm

I don't know if the school I want exists. Sad

But I can't allow that to guide her Chinuch completely, especially when it means making compromises that I regret having made myself.

nehama

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 6:49 pm

So what would you have her read?

Mandy

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 7:37 pm

All the chabad only books on the level accessible to a young child or teenager can be read in a couple of weeks.

hisorerus

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 7:38 pm

OK, bite me if you want!

- Memoirs
- The Storyteller
- Talks and Tales
- Links in the Chassidic Legacy, The Making of Chassidim, Branches of the Chassidic Menorah
- Likutei Diburim
- Admur Maharash
- Tales from the Gemarah
- Our Sages Showed the Way
- The Midrash Says
- Please Tell Me What the Rebbe Said
- To Know and To Care
- Tales of Tzadikim
- From My Father's Shabbos Table
- Subbota
...and that's all I can think of at the moment.

If you say, "she won't find those interesting," I learned a very important lesson from school. If you read it out loud, you realize that it's a lot more interesting than you thought. I plan on IY"H reading to my children from these and other books, after which I hope they will be interested in reading more on their own.

My father read from Aggada every week at the Shabbos table, and it was so fascinating, I would have devoured it myself had it been in English.

didan

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 7:51 pm

B"H

My five year old daughter really enjoys "The Storyteller." She does not yet read English, but my husband and I read these stories to her and she's constantly asking for more stories.

I have some to add to your list, but it's bedtime, so IY"H tomorrow I'll do it.

carrot

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 7:55 pm

Hisorerus, I also read many of those books as a kid. My parents read them to me too, when I was younger. I agree, some of them are very interesting.

But I know that I would never have been satisfied reading JUST that. Especially as I got older and more aware and curious about different things.

And it would not take too many months for a good reader to read it all and be hungry for more or different stuff.

chanala

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 9:01 pm

hisorerus wrote:

I don't think a child need feel deprived because things are limited. Kosher food is limited, is that a Chinuch problem? Do you have kids running off to McDonalds Chas Veshalom because they say "you never let me eat anything"?

Which reminds me, LOL...

When my DD was 4 or 5, every time we passed a McDonald's she would whine, Why can't we go there??? 'Because it's not kosher' (more whining) Finally, one day I said, honey, some day G-d willing we will go to Israel, and BN we will go to McDonald's (or whatever they call it) and have a kosher hamburger!!!!!!!!!

I must have said that to her 50 times before she finally stopped asking, LOL! But I wasn't saying 'no', I was saying someday... when we can get a kosher one!

hisorerus

Tue, Mar 07 2006, 10:41 pm

Carrot, I am/was a voracious reader, and had to reread books for years. I've read Yesterday's Child at least 30 times, and I'm not exaggerating. If I've read hundreds of books in my life, imagine what it would be like without the doubles and triples and...

There is just no way to get enough (even) Jewish books to satisfy such a reader.

So why not have her read tochendik books, and try to inculcate a desire to LEARN as recreation? I don't think it's a bad experiment, as I've written, there is an escape hatch- if she runs out, I can always explain that it's not the best thing, but she can read other books.

Looking forward to your additions, didan.

didan

Wed, Mar 08 2006, 5:49 am

B"H

Here are a few more I'd like to add, the ones on top of this list were not around when I was a teenager, but are good as well.

As I mentioned earlier, I really enjoy Historia, some of these fit into that category.

Days in Chabad (translation of Yemei Chabad, very interesting)
The Heroic Struggle
Avraham Avinu of Australia
From Shedlitz to Safety
The Early Chasidic Personalities books: Reb Shmuel Munkis, Reb Pinchas Reizes (and I think there's one more)
The Third Judge
A Mother in Israel
In the Shadow of the Kremilin (I think this book is no longer in print but it's excellent.)
Deep in the Russian Night
Shmuel Hanagid
A Treasury of Chasidic Tales (this is a set with a number of volumes)
A Story a Day (also a set)

For a child who enjoys science, this book is terrific and really interesting, Mind Over Matter.

There are more, this is all I could think of right now.

imaamy

Wed, Mar 08 2006, 6:08 am

Wow I am really on the other side of this. My kids read a lot in school and we get library books. Each to his own anyway, but what is wrong with Uncle Moishy? My kids listened a lot to him when they were younger.

chocolate moose

Wed, Mar 08 2006, 6:59 am

Didan, DD has read some of those books in B.R.H.S. and had liked them.

ektsm

Wed, Mar 08 2006, 7:55 am

I think this is another case of being too strict on your kdis. As long as there is nothign sextual in the book I don't mind if my kids read them. If you restrict them too much then they will just go the other way. You can't be a solider to your kids.

hisorerus

Wed, Mar 08 2006, 9:10 am

Ektsm, I addressed that point a few times.

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