Doesn't seem to ever make poop in the toilet, only underwear

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 7:28 am

Anyone else have this? He's 3.5, been underwear for over a month, generally does will with pishing in the toilet. He usually realizes last minute, so we make a habit out of taking him two to three times an hour to the toilet to avoid accidents. But poop seems to always go in the underwear. Starting to think he just doesn't feel the need to go. Having dirty diapers never bothered him as long as he didn't have a rash, and he doesn't seem to mind the dirty underwear either.

He's number 4, and only 1 of my kids toilet trained "easily", so it's not so surprising. But school's starting on Thursday, and I'm not looking forward to having to schlep over to his gan to change him. (I work from home so even one trip takes a chunk out of my working time, let alone if he poops in his underwear more than once in a morning.)

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 7:37 am

you cant tell yet if he doesnt feel anything. before establishing his pooping in the toilet. so why dont you schedule times for sitting for poop? like right after breakfast. later in afternoon and after dinner. can you tell he is holding himself in? if he is then you need to take him then when you see it. and make him sit. you need to train him first. before suspecting anything is wrong. also, does he poop everyday in his underwear? u need to know that. does the stool look very hard? then he might be constipated. if thats it he needs more fiber and water. if the poop is soft and hes not straining then he just isnt trained yet.

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 7:47 am

I don't think anything is "wrong" I just want to help him figure out when he needs to make and that he needs to make on the toilet.

He does have language delays. He's on summer vacation from speech therapy and OT. He's also likely ADHD, but that's a separate issue. I'm just curious if it's a lack of understanding what he needs to do or a sensory issue that's making it harder for him to know when he needs to make so that he can get to the toilet on time.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 7:51 am

four or five times. is a lot. is the stool hard or soft? is it hard balls or like diahrea? also you need to schedule times. like I mentioned. and make him sit there at least 5 minutes. is he an impatient type? is it hard for him to sit in general? then find something that will make him sit there.
put on a timer and make him sit there till it rings. I would make it more then 5 minutes. but start with that.

4-5 times is too much. is that what he was doing when he was in diapers?

amother

White

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 7:53 am

We had the same problem with my daughter, 2.5 years old. By the second day of potty training boot camp, 100% of pees were going in the potty. For about a month, almost all the poops were in her pants while peeing was all in the potty.

Unfortunately, I can't identify anything specific as a reason why things suddenly changed. But she started pooping in the potty consistently. Now, she poops only in the potty. But she has gotten more careless with her peeing. It's been 4-5 months since we started potty training and we don't feel like we're out of the woods yet.

Sorry I don't have any good advice, but hope you feel better knowing that these things are common and there isn't always a clear logic.

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:00 am

It's not abnormal to make four or five times a day. And some days he doesn't make at all, also normal. It's normal regular poop. His poop schedule now is more or less what it was when he was in diapers.

And he won't sit for five minutes on the toilet, and I can't make him poop if he doesn't need to. His attention span is about half a second. Like I said, he likely has ADHD, but we generally don't medicate our kids this young.

My oldest consistently made poop in her underwear at 3.5 until I had a discussion with her where I discovered that she thought other adults were making poop in their underwear and I realized that she was mistaking passing gas for pooping. Once we cleared up, she never pooped in her underwear again.

My third consistently wet herself daily until gan chova. She still usually doesn't make it through a day with dry underwear, but at least she's not coming home from gan soaking wet or me being called to come to the gan to bring her a change of clothes.

It was only my second that trained within a few weeks at age 2.5, and he's the other one with the language delay, sensory issues, and ADHD.

I don't mind waiting it out, but I just thought if anyone else dealt with something similar and found the "trick" that worked, I could give it a try.

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:01 am

amother wrote:

Thanks for empathizing.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:02 am

you dont have to expect when hes going to poop. thats not what its all about. but as a beginner for training it might be good to look out for them. if hes pooping right after peeing then put him to sit right after he pees. and yes some children with adhd have this problem. ds has it exactly thats why I am answering you. ds wasnt diagnosed officially yet. we are getting there. ds also has some sensory and he is nauseated by looking at his poop. hes gone a long way in this issue.

I AM NOT SAYING YOUR SON HAS ANY OF DS ISSUES. I am saying that some children that are hyperactive and its hard for them to sit have a hard time with pooping because they are impatient and its hard for them to sit. that is part of the problem.

scheduling is one of the first ways to train a child. you need to write down on a chart if he poops everyday. and how many times. and do the scheduling and look out to see what the poop is like. these things help figure out the problem.

so yes he needs to know that you will make him a timer and he needs to sit there. ds had the same issue. I hear you wont medication but if it will help him why wont you do that? ds has exactly such issues and I am and was struggling so badly with this issue. he became impacted and need a cleanout in outpatient hospital and was pooping in his pants daily. its a horrible mess. I am not saying this is your issue. but it can become that way. children with adhd have this issue because of awareness and they are so busy they dont notice it and when they do they dont act on it because they have adhd. I hope this makes sense. you can try different methods but I dont know any of them.

4-5 pooping is not normal. something tells me he is constipated. even though hes going so many times. how many days can he go without pooping?

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:16 am

I'm not against medicating if that's what his teachers, therapists, doctors recommend. Two of my other kids recently started meds at 9 and 11. I had to push for those two to be medicated, but that's another issues. There are some really serious, scary side effects to all ADHD medications, and he's really young. Generally, these medications are prescribed to 6 and older. Also bcse of his verbal delays, he wouldn't tell us if he's feeling any of the side effects if they aren't things that we can observe.

And four to five times a day or not every day is normal. I've spoken to doctors and dieticians about it before over the years in regards to other family members, who also make four, five, or more times per day.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:21 am

why wouldnt you schedule timing? at least 3 times a day? you would eliminate some of the issues. this child needs to see a doctor regardless of what the doctor told you about your other kids.

on a side note. I will probably medicate ds. what are the scary side affects you mention. I want to be aware of them.

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:22 am

amother wrote:

I was just responding to you because I have a ds thats 8 years old with adhd , sensory issues. and the result of this behavior was not pretty because I was unaware like you.

you can disregard my experience if you like.

I do appreciate your sharing your experience. And not feeling that he needs to make could be a sensory issue and not feeling uncomfortable with poopy in your underwear could also be a sensory issue. And not having patience to go to the toilet is normal 3 yr old and probably worse for one iwth ADHD. With pishing, we see him holding himself and take him. I have to send my 6 and 9 year to the toilet also bcse I see them holding themselves but they just don't want to take a break from what they're doing to go. But with the poops, there's just no signs that he needs to make until it's too late to get him to the toilet. and he never says, I need to make poopy or that he is poopy. With pish he'll say he needs even if it's too late to get there on time or come to us that he's wet.

And if it's a language delay issues, I'm not sure how he can understand that pish goes in the toilet, but doesn't understand that poop goes in. it's all the same concept.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:23 am

My DD had a similar problem and wasn't sitting long enough. I ended up taking a big stack of books, a chair, and sitting in the bathroom reading to her while she was on the toilet. Eventually, I heard a "plop!" and her eyes got really big. I just smiled, and kept on reading. After a while, when there were no more "plops", I asked her if she was done, and she said yes.

We did a big potty dance, she got candy and stickers, and that was that. I still had to read with her sometimes, but at that point she at least understood the process.

If your older kids can amuse themselves for a half an hour, try sitting with him, be patient, and keep him distracted. He may relax enough for the poop to come out, and you can build on that success.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:29 am

he seems to understand this but isnt communicating it to you. he might be afraid of letting go in the toilet. and he definitely has sensory issues. many kids are afraid to let go. has he ever had poop in the toilet? if he did then you know hes got it. but if not then see what you can do to get him to sit. do you use dvds? let him watch something. something relaxing. what about books like frantic mentioned. its important you get this one tim

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:32 am

amother wrote:

He's due to go back to the developmental doctor in Dec. The doctor that gave my other kids meds doesn't see kids under 7. That doctor very readily prescribed meds. It was the previous doctors, teachers, therapists, etc. And for my 11 year old, her teacher was shocked that I put her on meds, but after a very lengthy discussion, she came to realize the specific reasoning. But that's digressing.

For the side affects, I'd have to get out the leaflet that comes with the meds, and it's a long list to type out. If you Google "side effects of Ritalin or Concerta or Focalin or Vyvance or Aderall, you should be able to find a listing online. DH took Ritalin for years and then quit bcse he just couldn't deal with the multiple side effects. He now takes Concerta and so far it's working for him without side effects. My older kids are not having side effects so far, but at 9 and 11 they can verbally express any discomfort they are experiencing.

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:38 am

FranticFrummie wrote:

He has made in the toilet before, when we "got lucky" and he was already there making pishy. He wasn't afraid of it. Had that with another kid. And there's nothing that can keep this kid sitting for half an hour unless he's sleeping. If he can sit through five minutes of story time, that's a lot.
Toilet time activities never helped with any of my other kids. We tried it with our first. Figured eventually she would pish, we'd get all excited, etc.
But thanks for the suggestion.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:41 am

its interesting you mention a developemental doctor. I had never heard of such a concept like this. its the first time iheard of this. wow. I wish the pediatricians I go to would have this training. alot of issues would be discovered a lot earlier.

so can you go earlier? to see what this doctor can figure out? of your child has these issues then this child needs better then what we can tell you here. we are not specialists.

amother

Honeydew

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:47 am

I dont know of any other solutions for kids that have adhd and have toilet issues. meaning no patience. what I mentioned is all I know. you dont want him to get impacted. so you need for him to go regularly. he needs to go everday. or every other day. or if he doesnt he can get impacted. ds is also impatient. but because his issue became so bad that he had to follow what the gi told him to do. and he was older. not 3. and he was pooping at that age. it became an issue later on.

ds was told to sit for 7 minutes. and he is working with a psychologist that was able to work with him to get him to sit. he is obviously older. but I am sure that a bahavioral therapist that deals with these issues can get through to him. they are trained to deal with this. I go tto childrens hospital of philadelphia. and they have such a system there. I dont know wher eyou live. so your child needs to see someone who deals with this.

ds has encopresis. maybe that helps you.

he doesnt need to sit for more then 5 minutes. I wouldnt make him sit for half an hour. its too long for such kids. especially for kids this age. with adhd. ds takes miralax and exlax and fiber to keep him regulated and not just hole it in and then get backed up. I dont know if this helps just sharing. hatzlacha.

Tel Tzion Ima

Sun, Aug 28 2016, 8:50 am

amother wrote:

The developmental doctor is a neurologist, not a pediatrician. And my son has been before, and we were told to check back once a year. He's also been evaluated by a developmental psychologist. He's been in speech therapy and OT and is going to a special Ed gan starting Thursday. So far his OT didn't say anything about sensory issues or him needing a sensory diet. So far not one doctor or therapist has recommended medication at this point. If when he starts his new school, they do, then I'll bring it up with his developmental doctor.