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Selecting a neighborhood
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nia73




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Aug 29 2016, 11:08 pm
Hello Ladies

We are in the process of planning our aliyah and are trying to 1) find the right shul/neighborhood & 2) I am trying get to know more charedi ladies.

Background: Young, Sephardic, religious family (oldest will be 3 early next year). Moving from S. FL and have only lived mostly around baal teshuva individuals and gone to either kiruv Sephardic or Chabad shuls due to availability in the part of S. FL we live. Most all congregants are Israeli. We have never been to Yisrael and do not know anyone there.

Education/Professions: PhD Social Work, MSW, & Licensed (specialize in hospice, gerontology/care management, & medical social work); M.Ed. & Licensed (specialize in adolescent behavioral issues & education)

Shul/neighbourhood interests:
Shul: Black Hat/yeshivish type; Access to an English speaking Rabbi
Climate: open but would love descriptions
Landscape: open but fond of more trees/water, less desert
Neighborhood: Anglo & Israeli mix; A neighborhood that has majority charedi/ religious families (someone suggested a yishuv but need more info about them) but open to ideas
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 1:55 am
Ramat Eshkol/ Maalot dafna(J'lem)? There is a big percentage of younger people that are transient but the people who are here to stay fit your description.
The community is very anglo but do send the kids tend to become more Israeli then in a place like RBS.
You would also have an easier time finding jobs as metal health professionals in Jerusalem - there are lots of English speaking clinics and the hospitals have tons of English speaking patients.
The minuses are that you may have a hard time getting your kids into schools- unfortunatley there are biases against americans and sephardim in jerusalem, but you will also find a lot of other families like you and will be able to guide you in to the right institutions.
The other problem is that housing is very expensive - you might have to live in something a lot smaller than you do now in the states

I grew up in Carmiel(up north) and it was amazing for me but do your research well because all the anglo's who move their either love it or it totally doesn't work out.
The pluses are that the general charedi community is very accepting and you won't have to deal with some of the biases that you would deal with in J'lem when it comes to schools(being american and sephardic). For the price of an apartment in ramat eshkol you can buy a house, and the landscape is GORGEOUS.

The minuses is that the Anglo community is very very small (20-25 families) but it is growing. You will not have the sense of community you have in OOT USA. The bigger minus for you is that while I'm sure the PHD Social Work will find a job in the area ( there are a lot of hospitals) I can see the M.Ed. having trouble finding work unless they really speak the language
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amother
Wine


 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 2:03 am
Har Nof sounds like it might be a good fit.
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 2:42 am
It sounds like you need a pilot trip to see what would fit you.
BT and Sephardic shuls in S. Florida do not by any means equal charedi lifestyle in Israel. Most charedim in Anglo communities are Ashkenazi and thus get their kids into Charedi schools.
Charedim don't want Sephardic families and your best bet might be a Charedi Sephardic community, sorry, don't know any offhand.
Charedim in Israel are against secular education and sometimes kids are discriminated against-- not accepted to schools bcz. their parents have a secular education. You really need to look into where you would be accepted and feel comfortable.
Jobs should be doable-- but you'll need to speak Hebrew and realize that your salary will be a 1/3, if not less, of what you were making in America.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 5:21 am
amother wrote:
The minuses is that the Anglo community is very very small (20-25 families) but it is growing. You will not have the sense of community you have in OOT USA. The bigger minus for you is that while I'm sure the PHD Social Work will find a job in the area ( there are a lot of hospitals) I can see the M.Ed. having trouble finding work unless they really speak the language

I would think the opposite. A hospital won't hire a social worker who doesn't speak Hebrew. But there are always schools in the north looking for English teachers.
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essie14




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 5:58 am
If you have never been to Israel you MUST take a pilot trip. Look at the NBN website and try to pick out some yishuvim and cities you think might be a good fit and come check them out. You will meet people, check out schools and job opportunities.
Network as much as you can with people living here.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 7:21 am
nia73 wrote:
..
Background: Young, Sephardic, religious family (oldest will be 3 early next year). Moving from S. FL and have only lived mostly around baal teshuva individuals and gone to either kiruv Sephardic or Chabad shuls due to availability in the part of S. FL we live. Most all congregants are Israeli. We have never been to Yisrael and do not know anyone there.

Have you asked any of your Israeli acquaintances for recommendations?

I second the idea of a pilot trip. Gather info re:a few potential neighborhoods, make contacts ahead of time an arrange to stay a few days in each one. Network.
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nia73




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 8:57 am
Thanks ladies. Very valuable info. We are indeed working on Hebrew. We are working hard to network which sometimes seems awkward online but BH.

I have heard about the Sephardic v. Ashkinaz situation being even more intense there. So would going North be a better fit or being om more of a mixed place opposed to a Yishuv or Charedei community? My husband keeps suggesting Tzfat....
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 10:14 am
You sound like an excellent fit for Nahariya!

Very mixed area, tons of Sephardim, a nice Chabad, and a couple of other shuls with anglos. English shiurim for men and women on a weekly basis in people's homes, and lots of activities for anglo olim. The ulpan here is wonderful! I can't say enough good things about it.

It's cheaper than Tzfat, the housing is new and beautiful, and many apartments have a view of the beach or tree lined streets. It's right on the train line, so you can zip down to J'lem, Tel Aviv, or anywhere else with no problem. Busses to Tzfat and Maalot run very often.

The Ashkenazic/Sephardic divide is not a big deal here, and the schools are very open minded. How old are your kids? DD went to Evan Shoham last year for 6th grade, and she's going to Ulpana Tzvia in Maalot for 7th thru 12th.

We also have the Western Galilee hospital, and many nursing facilities. A lot of elderly people move here to retire, so there is plenty of work available. You may even qualify for free professional training to help fast track you into a suitable job, check with your N'bN coordinator. I know there are incentives for people with certain degrees.

I'm amazed at how many Floridians have moved here, it must be the Miami of Israel. LOL
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nia73




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 11:28 am
Very nice. I noticed no votes for Bet Shemesh???
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 12:09 pm
Okay I went to school with a LOT of tzfat girls....

IMO it is spiritual suicide to raise kids in tzfat - especially as olim.

The charedi schools are not that great (to say the least), the chabad school is meshichist hashkafa so you need to be comfortable with that, and noam (dati leumi) is coed.

Also a lot of very spiritual but not very grounded people tend to be attracted to Tzfat, so there is more dysfunction and poverty(similar to the beit yisrael or shmuel hanavi neighborhoods in J'lem) then other parts of the country.

The combination of those factor creates a huge percentage of the kids who are turned off (more then other places in the country) the hang out areas are all over the place .....

I would think that Carmiel, Naharyia, or Maalot would be a better fit.
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 12:12 pm
You did mention you are looking for a mix of americans and anglo's.

That is not Beit Shemesh- RBS is the kinda place you can be born in and still not be able to communicate in hebrew (I actually have friends like this)....
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nia73




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 12:19 pm
I am sorry, I wasunder the impression that Americans were considered Anglos...? I shpuld stipulatthat we would like our kids (2 yr & 4 months) to be integrated into Israeli culture so a mix of American & Israeli. At this youung of an age,should be seemless for them at least (bzrat HaShem).

I should also stipulate that we are Black (I am African American from Chicago & my husband is from Haiti & has been in the states for almost 20 years). I was not sure if that would make a difference like it does here... but some say it may be harder to be among some charedi groups????
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amother
Linen


 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 12:30 pm
Actually think the black part shouldn't make much of a difference as there are a lot of of Ethiopian and Yemenite Sephardic charedim so you probably wouldn't stick out too much.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 1:09 pm
Going anon because of identifying information.

I'd recommend Rehovot. It has a strong enough Anglo community that you will have help adjusting, but it's too small a community for you to be able to live in a bubble. You will need to learn Hebrew here, and your children definitely will.

There is a lovely Anglo Charedi shul called Chatam, with a great Rav. It has a great out of town yeshivish hashkafa. The kehila is vibrant and warm, with a lot of young couples moving in. I do know that there is a strong Chabad community, and there are Chabad Anglo families that daven at the Chabad shul.

Rehovot as a city is a very diverse place- you have pretty much every type of Jew here, and people get along. It's pretty unique to Israel.

Rehovot is also close enough to major Anglo communities (Modiin, Beit Shemesh, Jerusalem) so that if you need to work in English, you could find a job.
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imasoftov




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 4:15 pm
nia73 wrote:
I am sorry, I wasunder the impression that Americans were considered Anglos...?

Your impression is correct.
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 7:02 pm
Charedi Israeli is not the same as Charedi American. I question if a more daati leumi community would be a better fit for you. Being black, educated, sephardic, american, and BT--however crazy and stupid this is--are all considered negitives in mainstream Charedi Israeli society. I wouldn't want to raise kids in a place where they were looked down on for nothing shameful at all.

I would stay out of Jerusalem at all costs, it sounds like the opposite of what you want: cramped, not pretty, small properties, close minded, conformist, not friendly, very rigid.

naharia, rechovot, beer sheva...?

It is not simple at all to raise children well in Israel. It is completely different than American mentality. The rules are so different and foreign.

Just wondering why you are seriously considering Aliyah when you haven't been there and didn't even research it that much?

If anyone should do well there, it was me. I dressed the part, acted the part, had a learning husband, went to bais yaakov, spoke Hebrew and was very aidle. But the school system was SO not for me. Smell of urine everywhere, no parental involvement, lax security measures, lots of hitting and yelling for discipline, and general hefkairos. I couldn't stomach sending my precious children into such a society to be left to his own devices. And I didn't have any stereotypes that they considered negative besides American.
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nia73




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Aug 30 2016, 7:06 pm
We are not baal teshuvas. We just live among them. That is how most of the Sephardic shuls are in S. Florida.

Your points are well taken though. Hence we asked. NBN is kind of general so far and thought several sources of info would help.

So if not Charedi, then it seems the places you all suggested would suffice. We can deal with Orthodox/religious/ or relaxed charedi but not Modern, Reform, Conservative, Traditional or Secular. Nothing against anyone personally. It is more for the children. Further, we are not connected at all to the US. Not materially (jobs/social status, apartment, and the like) or sentimentally (family or friends). We are coming to Israel for sure, just a matter of where.
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ProudMommie




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 31 2016, 2:25 am
B'SD

I really think that a pilot trip is a waste of money, so if you have lots of money to spare you could maybe give tzedakah to a worthy cause and that will increase your chances for siyata d'shmaya. (I am sure I will be attacked as usual for whatever I say). What I am saying is that you are coming home after a long absence... and it takes work to make your home the way you need it to be... think about coming home after a vacation and the balagan... etc...

I want to say that everything you will experience and all the challenges and the joys that are a part of aliyah are amazingly worth it. You are coming home to Hshm and to yourself. You will really get to know who you really are! I really believe that ONLY in the land of kedusha you can make your tikkun, become the best you ... etc. etc..

Actually, you sound like someone perfect for aliyah. Even though I don't know you I am reading between the lines in your post and see that you are very committed to coming here and making it work. Don't ever listen to anyone discouraging you... many people are afraid to let everything go and have bitachon.. (all of us probably to some extent) Hshm is with you and He will be with you more than ever because you are making a choice to be closer to Him... it is not a choice to have a Hollywood kitchen or a comfortable fancy shmansy life .... point made... but a spiritual choice... Though believe me not ONLY can you make very nice money in Israel but you can also have a Hollywood kitchen if you need it.Smile

Still, I am sure you understand that aliyah is never "simple" and you are coming to grow... If you are a "grower" then you will welcome the opportunity although growth sometimes (maybe all the time) comes with some degree of pain.

We made aliyah three years ago to Yerushalaim. Yerushalaim is the heart of the world and the heart of the Jewish people. It hurts me to say this that as much as I love Yerushalaim and tremble at the thought that we are here... the problems and the "issues" of our nation are very very clear and intense here.... There are amazing things.. but also very difficult things to digest. I can not elaborate on an online forum... All I can say is that our national heart is not completely healthy...

I am really excited to hear that another wonderful family is making a spiritual choice and not just settling for galut because of fear of the unknown or fear of discomfort (which is super short lived and limited). You are truly heroes... and you make it so much easier for the next person to come home...

if you want to talk further I can tell you some things that I have learned and possibly give you numbers of good people here that might be helpful. If you want to speak on the phone, please pm me for details. I am sorry, I don't have so much time to write long posts and I don't have patience for the back and forth... I need more info about you so I know if my experience is matim for you. I will gladly share what I know and maybe it will be useful. Much Hatzlacha:)
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heidi




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Aug 31 2016, 2:33 am
amother wrote:

If anyone should do well there, it was me. I dressed the part, acted the part, had a learning husband, went to bais yaakov, spoke Hebrew and was very aidle. But the school system was SO not for me. Smell of urine everywhere, no parental involvement, lax security measures, lots of hitting and yelling for discipline, and general hefkairos. I couldn't stomach sending my precious children into such a society to be left to his own devices. And I didn't have any stereotypes that they considered negative besides American.


I don't know what hole your children went to school in, but this is simply not true for the vast majority of charedi schools in Bet Shemesh, Yerushalayim and Kiryat Sefer- many, many, many of which I have visited professionally. The schools are beautiful and well kept. There are shomrim at every locked gate.
I am constantly amazed at the prettiness- for lack of a better word- of charedi schools, while my DL kids are learning in caravans!!!
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