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Getting paid from previous job once you found another
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Is a person entitled vacation pay from her previous job, if she left the job for a new one
yes  
 39%  [ 9 ]
no  
 60%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 23



supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 1:12 am
I didn't know where to post this.

My daughters teacher quit about a month before the end of the year. She (work as a private daycare) wants to still get paid for vacation. She found herself a new job and has been working for the past two months.

Now is she granted summer vacation pay from the teachers job?

We went to beis din to settle this (not only us), one of the Rabbi's there insisted that once you work in a place more then a certain amount of months you automatically are granted vacation pay even if you leave. And if she left two or three months before and got someone to work for her she is still granted the vacation pay. shock

I said I would ask.


Last edited by supermom on Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lechatchila Ariber




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 1:34 am
I'm confused, what kind of a teaching job are you talking about.
privately working for you? or working for the school?
why would you be the one taking her to beis din?

all I can say that in a regular official job there is usually a contract stipulating these things.
generally speaking a person gets a certain amount of vacation pay per day that he or she works, so depending on how long they work for they are entitled to the amount of vacation hours and days they accumulated.
if they worked less, they get less.
basically whatever they accumulated they are entitled to.

however I'm not sure what sort of job you are talking about.
if she is a private daycare and you are bringing your child to her, then since when should you be the one to pay her vacation? you aren't an employer but rather a client and a client isn't responsible for that
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rainbow




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 1:35 am
Where's the contract?
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amother


 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 1:41 am
Honestly..I dont know much about you but I would stay away from you.

#1 you dont leave a teaching job before the school year is over.
#2 you took to a bais din for this reason? NO she quit her job. Its over she doesnt deserve anything.
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Lechatchila Ariber




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 1:51 am
who are you addressing amother?
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:05 am
SOrry for not being so clear.

She took a couple of us to beis din because we refused to pay her for vacation.

She is working privately and about eight families put our kids by her. Unfortantly here in Israel people get paid when they work privately for vacations. I believe you get paid for when you work. If you don't work you don't get paid.

So as for now she quit her job didn't want to continue anymore. She sent her sister teenager to take care of the kids. She found herself another job and has been working there since. Now the question that remains why is she entitled for vacation.

Lets take it from a regular job. A person works as a secertary she decides to leave the job for a better job. Now comes summer vacation and she feels that her previous boss should give her a month and ten days worth of pay for vacation that she would have had if she still worked there. Why should she be entitled for vacation if she doesn't work there anymore?


Last edited by supermom on Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:06 am
rainbow wrote:
Where's the contract?


I never signed the contract since I refused to pay her for her vacation days. She still put my child in since she felt that I would pay her even though I told her I wouldn't.

But the contract says twelve months postdated checks a month for summer vacation and three weeks for pesach.
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:08 am
EstiS wrote:
however I'm not sure what sort of job you are talking about.
if she is a private daycare and you are bringing your child to her, then since when should you be the one to pay her vacation? you aren't an employer but rather a client and a client isn't responsible for that


Now if only israel can just understand this one.
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:29 am
Eighty one people that looked at this thread only three people answered the poll. PLEASE....
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Lechatchila Ariber




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:32 am
Quote:
Lets take it from a regular job. A person works as a secertary she decides to leave the job for a better job. Now comes summer vacation and she feels that her previous boss should give her a month and ten days worth of pay for vacation that she would have had if she still worked there. Why should she be entitled for vacation if she doesn't work there anymore?


as I said, in a regular job vacation days are accumulated.
lets say hypothetically for every 3 and half months worked you get a week vacation, and lets say the working year is 10 and half months then by the end of the year you have accumulated 4 weeks vacation pay.
But if you only worked for 7 months then you only get 3 weeks vacation pay.
the rules may vary from job to job, but bottom line is that every job you are entitled to some vacation pay depending on how long you have been there, so even if you leave early you still get some vacation pay.

however I have never heard of clients, paying a daycarer vacation pay, but I don't live in Israel so I can't comment on that.

Bottom line is that you never signed the contract so how can you be forced to pay?
and the reason you didn't sign was because you didn't agree to the terms so I don't see how you can be held to a contract you never agreed to and didn't sign.
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amother


 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:32 am
Supermom I meant to write about the teacher. No she does not deserve vacation time and to take to bais din for this??
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:34 am
Amother it is okay I figured that is who you were speaking about. Very Happy
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 2:38 am
EstiS wrote:
as I said, in a regular job vacation days are accumulated.
lets say hypothetically for every 3 and half months worked you get a week vacation, and lets say the working year is 10 and half months then by the end of the year you have accumulated 4 weeks vacation pay.
But if you only worked for 7 months then you only get 3 weeks vacation pay.
the rules may vary from job to job, but bottom line is that every job you are entitled to some vacation pay depending on how long you have been there, so even if you leave early you still get some vacation pay.


I understand. Now things are clearer from what the Rabbi was trying to tell me that EVERYONE gets vacation days even if they quit their job. But tachlis she is private and that means no benefits for her. Her choice that she made.
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Marion




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 3:01 am
Here's what I think:

1. I agree that the whole system whereby a private daycare provider is messed up. If you are self-employed, you are not automatically entitled to vacation time! However, it IS the accepted way of doing things here.

2. IMO, by bringing your child to this person, even though you didn't actually sign the contract, you signalled your willingness to abide by her rules. If you didn't like the rules, you would have found different daycare arrangements. Therefore, even though the system is wrong, you still need to pay her vacation time.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 3:27 am
I agree with Marion.

A din Torah usually holds as very important what the accepted practice in that time and place is. A contract is not so relevant.
In Israel (as people have said, whether you agree or not) the accepted practice is that a private daycare/ metapelet/ gan gets holiday pay. Usually, in my experience, either they give a 'keitana' for 3 weeks for a month's pay and/or take two weeks paid holiday in the summer (as well as school holidays and yom tov according to what was agreed).

She gave you the service of the daycare for 10 or 11 months and so she is entitled to holiday pay. I don't think it is anything to do with what she is doing now. Say a teacher decides to leave their job and not return the next year - of course they are entitled to pay for July-August whether or not they started a new job on the 1st of July.

Actually what would have annoyed me, and what maybe I would have taken her to a din Torah is that you agreed to her as the metapelet/ ganenet and she suddenly leaves someone else in her place. Maybe you didn't want her sister and/or a change for your child? I presume her sister should get part of the holiday pay, but that is between them and nothing to do with the parents.

Another question: if you've been to a din Torah, just accept that that's mishamayim and pay up. Why are you asking us???
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 3:30 am
THat is the problem here where I live either you put your child in to a daycare that they have or their is nothing else. I needed something for my daughter.

I just had given birth on rosh hashana and had also a one year old at home. My daughter missed the deadline in going up to the next grade (gan). So because of this I had to put her back down to the daycare(moan). If it weren't the fact that she was almost three and I didn't have two babies at home I would have left her at home. But I just couldn't cope with three at home. I told her that I didn't agree with the vacations, so she tried to cut me a deal. Rolling Eyes I would pay her much more an hour and then have to pull my daughter out two and half hours earlier a day. Some deal!! She ends up getting paid more at the end of the month and I end up loosing more money. So I told her no thank you.

When it came to paying her for pesach I did just because I figured it wasn't her fault. But for the end of the year she had a choice. She claims that the whole Isreal pays for summer vacation for private daycare. I checked around and even asked in the Israeli frum and not everyone pays for summer vacations. I told her if everyone doesn't pay I don't want to pay either. At the end she said yes but this is how it went where she use to live.
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 3:38 am
shalhevet wrote:
I agree with Marion.

A din Torah usually holds as very important what the accepted practice in that time and place is. A contract is not so relevant.
In Israel (as people have said, whether you agree or not) the accepted practice is that a private daycare/ metapelet/ gan gets holiday pay. Usually, in my experience, either they give a 'keitana' for 3 weeks for a month's pay and/or take two weeks paid holiday in the summer (as well as school holidays and yom tov according to what was agreed).

She gave you the service of the daycare for 10 or 11 months and so she is entitled to holiday pay. I don't think it is anything to do with what she is doing now. Say a teacher decides to leave their job and not return the next year - of course they are entitled to pay for July-August whether or not they started a new job on the 1st of July.

Actually what would have annoyed me, and what maybe I would have taken her to a din Torah is that you agreed to her as the metapelet/ ganenet and she suddenly leaves someone else in her place. Maybe you didn't want her sister and/or a change for your child? I presume her sister should get part of the holiday pay, but that is between them and nothing to do with the parents.

Another question: if you've been to a din Torah, just accept that that's mishamayim and pay up. Why are you asking us???


Firstly the beis din didn't make the decision yet. THey still need to find out more details. WHy would she be entitled vacation pay if she left the last month of july? Why does she get that grant? If your child was in a daycare like that would you have agreed to something on those terms? If I was the teacher I wouldn't expect a penny if I would do something like that.

When we told the beis din about her leaving they waved it off. Confused Possible that they heard enough about it from the other person.

There is a difference in working a whole year and then not working the next year. And working up until the last month and then quiting to find another job.
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shalhevet




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 3:40 am
supermom, I sympathize. But by putting her there, even if you had no other choice, you agreed to her conditions. You really should have sorted this out, in writing, at the beginning of the year.

I should add that even in writing doesn't always help. Years ago I put my dd in a private gan. Suddenly in the middle of the year the ganenet decided that there was going to be no more gan on Fridays. shock shock Not only that but the price was going to stay the same. shock shock shock When I protested that that's not what we had agreed on (in writing!) she agreed, but said she needed a yom chofshi and if I didn't like it I could take my dd out. Since I had a tiny baby and my dd had just had acquired a new brother with all the accompanying upheaval, I didn't want to put her into a new gan. I wasn't going to start with a din Torah, so basically there was nothing I could do.
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supermom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 3:44 am
(sigh) Sad .
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BinahYeteirah




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Aug 26 2007, 5:47 am
It is also accepted in the US and other places, not just in Israel, that private daycare providers are entitled to vacation pay. I have found this to be less prevalent in the Jewish world outside of Israel (where people want to pay as if for a babysitter, I.e. just the hours the child is there, not for illness or yom tov or anything), but many (most?) non-Jewish private daycares have some paid vacation and holiday time stated in the contract. For example, if any public holidays fall on a regular day of care, plus some days before and/or after the big holidays would all be paid. Many even have 1-2 weeks of paid summer vacation. It all depends on the contract, but this is very much a normal practice.
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