Is an Avel allowed to go to a Chanukah Party?

Laiya

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 10:58 am

amother wrote:

Laiya, the year of aveilos is supposed to be difficult. OP, maybe you should learn the halachos of aveilos to help you understand why we need to do all this. It might help with the resentment. It's not supposed to be easy. You can celebrate with your own family (DH and kids) at home. There are other ways to make chanukah special.

Amber, I'm well aware. I also learned that there are many, many aspects of aveilus that do not have the halachic significance that people often assume. I was very surprised to learn this, more than once, by asking specific questions of my pretty machmir rav. My suggestion to amother is to ask.

zaq

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 12:05 pm

amother wrote:

I am an avel and rov said I can't go
so I am supposed to stay home while everyone else goes out and leaves me
home by myself.

Well, yes. That's why it's called "mourning". You're not supposed to go places and have a fun time, that's the whole point.

PinkFridge

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 3:35 pm

zaq wrote:

Well, yes. That's why it's called "mourning". You're not supposed to go places and have a fun time, that's the whole point.

As a p.s. one is still allowed to be b'simcha. It's not 12 months of misery. It's 12 months of being conscious of the loss.

debbie321

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 3:41 pm

amother wrote:

I am an avel and rov said I can't go
so I am supposed to stay home while everyone else goes out and leaves me
home by myself.

When my family was in aveilus, we did something just for us.
When I had to miss various weddings and simchos, and sit out on weddings, my sister reframed how I thought of it, which made me feel better...
Think of it as what a zchus and aliya you are giving the neshama in shamayim...
That you get a mitzva for not doing something. And you and the neshama get a mitzva, and the neshama will intervene on your behalf because you are doing things for them...

PinkFridge

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 3:44 pm

OP, I just want to say that I did aveilus as a teen, and then again as an adult. Despite my adult perpective, and my gratitude that my second parent was elderly and all that, it wasn't so easy. If you ever feel you need to vent, I think you should be able to do so safely. Go to the Orphans forum and do it there.

zaq

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 4:49 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

As a p.s. one is still allowed to be b'simcha. It's not 12 months of misery. It's 12 months of being conscious of the loss.

But even on :Shabbos and YT you don’t celebrate publicly. You don’t hang out for the post-kiddish socializing. You can listen to the rabbi make kiddish, grab your thimbleful of wine and kichel, then scram. Yes, you have a Purim Seudah—but you don’t have guests and you don’t celebrate at someone else’s seudah. Yes, you light Chanukah licht and sing Maoz Tzur, but you don’t go to a Chanukah party.

You can be besimcha personally but not publicly. if your own dc gets married when you’re in avelus, you don’t sit in the ballroom with the rest of the guests but eat outside with the other avelum, if there are any, or by yourself, if there aren’t.

amother

cornflower

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 5:50 pm

I agree that you can speak to your rav and explain your feelings. I was also told that I could (and possibly should) go if it was just family, if it was important to one of my relatives to have me there. In my case, my mom was already out of aveilus for my dad and really loved that party and needed it that year, but wouldn't go if none of us (her kids) went.

amother

cornflower

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 5:53 pm

zaq wrote:

Interesting. I was allowed to stay in shul with my kids for the kiddush because leaving when I normally wouldn't would constitute an act of aveilus in public on Shabbos, which isn't allowed. But I wasn't allowed to eat a thing.

PinkFridge

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 6:30 pm

zaq wrote:

You can still radiate simchas hachaim.

But your point - and we agree - is that the aveil is limited re special events.

ETA: Just noticed you spoke about children's chasunas. Maybe people get different psakim. What I'm familiar with is that for one's own child one is allowed to fully participate.

sub

Sat, Nov 17 2018, 10:50 pm

When my husband and his siblings were in aveilus for their father they received different psak for the same questions you definetly need to ask.
When his best freind made a Shidduch he was told he may go to say mazal tov but not stay for eating or drinking
For purim he was told he may go to a party with the condition that it would be a siyum and no music

grace413

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 5:03 am

sirel wrote:

asking as someone who has never been an Avel.
Excuse me if I'm being insensitive.

Isn't there a feeling of not wanting to participate in parties and simchas?

This is an excellent question.
The answer is, it depends.

From my own experience for the first several months I definitely did not want to participate in any parties. But a year is a long time and by 10 months people may feel differently. Or not.

Some people did not have good relationships with their parents.

Some people are by nature more or less interested in social events.

Many of the aveilut minhagim are not halacha. That is why you see so many different psak.

mo5

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 5:18 am

zaq wrote:

The shabbos and yomtov abstaining one isn’t universal. Some poskim say that it’s considered aveilus befarhesia if you used to hang out at the kiddish shabbos and now you always disappear. Same with your dc getting married and what you’re meant to do or not do.
If you have a Purim Seuda every year, again, many Rabbonim tell you to do host the same then.
Many many people are machmir for themselves on aveilus. Not everything written in the books is Halacha. Some of it is minhag. It’s always good to ask your own Rav. Been there done that.

imasoftov

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 5:31 am

sirel wrote:

asking as someone who has never been an Avel.
Excuse me if I'm being insensitive.

Isn't there a feeling of not wanting to participate in parties and simchas?

I have been one, and you're not being insensitive, but I did not feel sorrow for every moment of 12 months, there were things I would have done during the year had halacha not forbidden me to.

But people are different, so I'm sure there are some people who wouldn't want to go to anything for the whole year (or perhaps even longer) even if halacha did not address the topic.

amother

Blush

Sun, Nov 18 2018, 9:24 am

sirel wrote:

asking as someone who has never been an Avel.
Excuse me if I'm being insensitive.

Isn't there a feeling of not wanting to participate in parties and simchas?

Speaking for myself, I found the loss to be very isolating. It felt like no one could really understand what I was experiencing.

So while I did not feel like celebrating, dh's family chanukah didn't feel like a celebration. It was a time to connect with family who loved me. Staying home alone while everyone else was there, just intensified the feelings of isolation and alone-ness.