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Do we really owe him anything?
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 9:01 am
yOungM0mmy wrote:
My kids also get bussed to school, and we have to drive 20-25 minutes to catch the bus. We've only been a minute late once, and we have no way of determining traffic till we her to the bus. You leave early to make the bus in time, is just what you do, and you make a network with the other parents (we have a whatsapp group) to coordinate where the bus is and if one of us is running a couple of minutes late.
One other suggestion that your driver may be agreeable to: our bus has a tracking app that we all have the password to, and we keep checking the app to know where he is so we don't end up waiting ages if he's running late, and we can know how to schedule our time to be there for our kids. Usually works well, even though it's stressful to be watching the app and refreshing every few minutes, but thats what you do to make sure your kids dont end up on a street corner by themselves, or you're inconveniencing another mother of little kids by being consistently late...


This is a private van driver--no app, though I wish there was. I've only put him on the van in the afternoon (other than Friday) 3 times. Its not a bus with pre-arranged stops, he goes door-to-door for the pre-K, that's pretty standard in NYC. He doesn't even come "to my door" b/c I live in a strange apartment complex, he wants us to meet him at the corner which I can't see from my window. He's not consistent with his times, there's only so much "foreplanning" that I can do with my work schedule. Does your work allow you to leave 30-60 mins early just to make sure that in all possible scenarios you'd be able to get your child from the bus? I made reasonable efforts to get my child, I'm sorry it didn't work out and I was willing to meet him when I was late.
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 9:01 am
OP, many of us here have kids who ride the bus, have jobs that have emergencies, have cars that have problems, live in areas with unanticipated traffic, etc. We understand the difficulties you had--and yet we overwhelming feel that you are being unreasonable (at best). You seem to have a skewed perspective on things. Your van driver isn't a personal chauffeur or babysitter. He's an employee of the school whose sole job is to drive for a designated period of time on a pre-determined route. If he worked for you by the hour, our reactions would be different. When I had a job that I knew could keep me late enough that I MIGHT be home late for the van, I hired a neighbor to wait at my home for the van. I paid her for an hour, even if I was 5 minutes late or on time. Why? Because the safety and care of my child always comes first and because I don't take advantage of people.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 9:08 am
amother wrote:
I think you are being rather harsh with me. We had a light on in the car, DH assumed it was a malfunctioning sensor since we didn't notice anything wrong with the car. So went in to get it checked out and was told that it was a major problem that would take 3 hours to fix and I couldn't even drive home 15 mins to go get my kids and come right back. It was the day before Thanksgiving and I needed my car for the next 2 days to do carpool for school--and no, I had no better option for getting my kids to school everyone was relying on my minivan. If I had taken a cab home, there likely would've been no way to get my car before the holiday. So in a blink I had to think fast realizing that it was just about dismissal time I figured at least my babysitter is "on the route" as it his his "usual" stop for my son it would be the least intrusive. Was it bad judgement on my babysitter's part to go chance it with the doctor knowing that she had to pick up my son? Probably, but I understand her perspective that it was likely--and was the flu--so she wanted to get him medicine so she wouldn't have a sick kid and have to cancel on her parents any longer than necessary. She had never done something like that. I initially told her that I'd be early, so she made an appointment. Ok, so he should be irked with her, not us. As the first time something like this happening, he couldn't have been more understanding that we "goofed"? So now every little thing becomes a headache for us. Believe me I was MORTIFIED realizing that I was late yesterday, I really felt bad and I offered to meet him to save him the trouble--and he led me on a wild goose chase.

Again, its this continued "attitude"--he basically yelled at us EVERY DAY for the next week about it and wasn't willing to accept that it was a mistake--with us that makes us annoyed with him. For one week I cant' make a change in schedule? What would happen if my babysitter would not be available on Friday due to being sick or sick child--I'd have to make alternate arrangements. It happens. When breaks from routine happen you have to think fast and gamble, sometimes you loose, but he's being a "sore loser" about one time.

He probably wants a Chanuka present, but at this point, I'll probably just tip him in June.


your car would take three hours to fix, and your house was fifteen minutes away. that means you take a cab home, get your kid, and take a cab back WITH your kid in order to pick up the car at the end of the three hour window. I'm not being overly harsh. I'm explaining reality to you. no, your babysitter didn't use any bad judgment. YOU did. if the babysitter is your driver's usual stop, you don't get to change it up twice in a day (first to your house, then to your babysitter's). stop blaming circumstances. you could have easily prevented this whole mess. I don't blame him one bit for yelling at you for a week. and he did not lead you on a wild goose chase, he protected himself. he wouldn't have had to if you had been home early, which is the only way to handle school bus schedules.

and no, you CAN'T make alternate arrangements with the bus driver. if your friday sitter is sick, you hire someone who can get him from the bus in front of her house and take him elsewhere. you need to treat the school bus like public transportation: there are set stops and times. the times may change due to traffic/the number of people getting on or off at each stop. you CANNOT change the route. this is the attitude every parent who has used the school bus system functionally has adopted. your lack of personal responsibility over this likely causes the other parents a lot of problems. we, the responsible parents on the route, have always had to deal with some or all of the following: 1) regularly taking someone else's kids off the bus because the parents couldn't bother to be available for their kids who are too young to walk home alone. this often leads to 2) regularly babysitting others' kids after school because the irresponsible parents assume that we're fine with it. we have no choice, because NO RESPONSIBLE ADULT would leave little kids on the corner. this may make us late for after school appointments for ourselves or our kids, or we may have to take the extra kid along, and the irresponsible parents say, "oh, I don't mind if yankel goes to the orthodontist with you" as if they're doing you a favor. then you have to drop the kid off at home after, because the parents can't be bothered to come pick the kid up from the orthodontist's office. 3) holding the bus at the stop in the morning because the other parents can't be bothered to get to the stop five minutes earlier but will blame you for not supporting them in their efforts to get their kids to school. this leads to all the kids on the bus getting to school late on a regular basis. (the year we had that bus, my daughter missed davening every day, and the teacher thought we were irresponsible parents because she was the only one in her class on that bus. teacher saw one kid come in consistently late and assumed we drove her. I was all for letting the bus go, but my vote wasn't shared by the majority at the bus stop, though everyone resented the situation.) 4) inconsistent drop-off times in the afternoon because someone along the line who is the only one at that stop wasn't there in time and the driver was nice enough to drive around the block/wait for a few extra minutes. in your case, having the driver make extra stops/wait for an adult who was not there at all would have delayed others' kids getting home by a significant amount of time.

stop blaming everyone and everything other than yourself and your decisions. yes, emergencies happen. as I said, find another mom who can get your kid off the bus somewhere along the route if necessary. use this option FOR EMERGENCIES ONLY. NOT for when your car is stuck at the mechanics, but you are not. convince yourself that you, alone, are responsible for your child. no one else is. the bus driver does not owe you special service, your babysitter has her own life (that you should acknowledge on a daily basis to remind yourself to CALL HER before deciding her time is yours), and a half-hour round trip is less than three hours.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 9:14 am
amother wrote:
This is a private van driver--no app, though I wish there was. I've only put him on the van in the afternoon (other than Friday) 3 times. Its not a bus with pre-arranged stops, he goes door-to-door for the pre-K, that's pretty standard in NYC. He doesn't even come "to my door" b/c I live in a strange apartment complex, he wants us to meet him at the corner which I can't see from my window. He's not consistent with his times, there's only so much "foreplanning" that I can do with my work schedule. Does your work allow you to leave 30-60 mins early just to make sure that in all possible scenarios you'd be able to get your child from the bus? I made reasonable efforts to get my child, I'm sorry it didn't work out and I was willing to meet him when I was late.


private van drivers are still bus drivers. the prearranged stops ARE the addresses. if you are in an apartment, I assume you cannot get to the front of the building within thirty seconds. seeing the bus from your window does not help you. you'd need to wait out front regardless. he can't be consistent with his times, traffic happens. and when you have off and others do too, it's best to assume that at least half the kids won't be in pre-k that day. I never sent in on those days. on those days, be home at the exact time his school has dismissal because he may show up five minutes after that. as for putting him on the van three times in the afternoon, this is actually worse than doing it consistently. it means the kids who come after him on the route will be late those days. also, since the driver isn't used to having that stop, it means he has to go on a slightly different route. this really isn't his job. either use the bus stop consistently or make other arrangments.
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amother
Blush


 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 9:23 am
I won't rehash all the details. I will just comment about your tipping the driver in June. That is a classic case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face". The driver deserves a tip. And a Thank You. And ultimately YOU and your SONS will benefit if you show hakaras hatov to the driver. You can choose NOT to give a chanuka gift......and continue in this negative pattern for the rest of the year. Or you can give him a generous gift and hopefully it will alleviate his resentment against you.
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causemommysaid




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 10:23 am
You are so out of control. I have no words. I would never want to deal with someone like you.

Now your blaming your babysitter? You screwed up. Own it, say sorry, don't do it again.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 10:45 am
amother wrote:
I think you are being rather harsh with me. We had a light on in the car, DH assumed it was a malfunctioning sensor since we didn't notice anything wrong with the car. So went in to get it checked out and was told that it was a major problem that would take 3 hours to fix and I couldn't even drive home 15 mins to go get my kids and come right back. It was the day before Thanksgiving and I needed my car for the next 2 days to do carpool for school--and no, I had no better option for getting my kids to school everyone was relying on my minivan. If I had taken a cab home, there likely would've been no way to get my car before the holiday. So in a blink I had to think fast realizing that it was just about dismissal time I figured at least my babysitter is "on the route" as it his his "usual" stop for my son it would be the least intrusive. Was it bad judgement on my babysitter's part to go chance it with the doctor knowing that she had to pick up my son? Probably, but I understand her perspective that it was likely--and was the flu--so she wanted to get him medicine so she wouldn't have a sick kid and have to cancel on her parents any longer than necessary. She had never done something like that. I initially told her that I'd be early, so she made an appointment. Ok, so he should be irked with her, not us. As the first time something like this happening, he couldn't have been more understanding that we "goofed"? So now every little thing becomes a headache for us. Believe me I was MORTIFIED realizing that I was late yesterday, I really felt bad and I offered to meet him to save him the trouble--and he led me on a wild goose chase.

Again, its this continued "attitude"--he basically yelled at us EVERY DAY for the next week about it and wasn't willing to accept that it was a mistake--with us that makes us annoyed with him. For one week I cant' make a change in schedule? What would happen if my babysitter would not be available on Friday due to being sick or sick child--I'd have to make alternate arrangements. It happens. When breaks from routine happen you have to think fast and gamble, sometimes you loose, but he's being a "sore loser" about one time.

He probably wants a Chanuka present, but at this point, I'll probably just tip him in June. I feel like that if he would've just gone through the changes for us--yes, I would tip him graciously, but this continued attitude with us is taking away my generosity.


You seem to have processing issues. Perhaps you should call DH the next time you have to "think fast". Leaving a 4 year old stranded was not good fast thinking. It is poor thinking as is blaming the babysitter, blaming the driver, traffic, the other kids relying on you, the amothers trying to help you clarify the situation, etc.

I am troubled that you would assume a light is only a broken sensor. Unless you are a mechanic, why would you assume?

Also, I am having trouble understanding the part of your story about how it is easy to pick up your kids but difficult to drop off. Usually when there is an issue, it is the other way.

I am not sure if I ever suggested someone has an issue based solely on one thread before, but I really think you do lack empathy for others and you process things in an unusual manner.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 10:50 am
Squishy wrote:
You seem to have processing issues. Perhaps you should call DH the next time you have to "think fast". Leaving a 4 year old stranded was not good fast thinking. It is poor thinking as is blaming the babysitter, blaming the driver, traffic, the other kids relying on you, the amothers trying to help you clarify the situation, etc.

I am troubled that you would assume a light is only a broken sensor. Unless you are a mechanic, why would you assume?

Also, I am having trouble understanding the part of your story about how it is easy to pick up your kids but difficult to drop off. Usually when there is an issue, it is the other way.

I am not sure if I ever suggested someone has an issue based solely on one thread before, but I really think you do lack empathy for others and you process things in an unusual manner.


I actually wouldn't question the ease of pick up vs. drop off. chances are, the school is on a residential block with a lot of traffic in the morning due to drop offs, people on the block driving to work, etc. pick up for UPK is usually at a time when people are still at work, and since there's a bus, fewer people pick up. more people are able to drive in the morning, so if they miss the bus, that's an extra car on the road per family.
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33055




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:14 am
mummiedearest wrote:
I actually wouldn't question the ease of pick up vs. drop off. chances are, the school is on a residential block with a lot of traffic in the morning due to drop offs, people on the block driving to work, etc. pick up for UPK is usually at a time when people are still at work, and since there's a bus, fewer people pick up. more people are able to drive in the morning, so if they miss the bus, that's an extra car on the road per family.


Thanks. What you are saying makes sense. I was looking at it from the point of view that it is easier to drop the kid off than look for him later.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:16 am
Squishy wrote:
Thanks. What you are saying makes sense. I was looking at it from the point of view that it is easier to drop the kid off than look for him later.


some schools keep a staff member outside at dismissal, parents can stay in their cars and the staff member reports who needs to be brought out via walkie-talkie. it's still a pain in the neck, but it doesn't involve searching for kids.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:21 am
Op, you're getting increasingly annoyed responses here because you keep explaining why it wasn't such a big deal/ wasn't your fault.

I'm guessing that's why the driver is upset, too. You seriously inconvenienced him. He needs to hear that it won't happen again. Instead, he's hearing "Sorry! So sorry! (but it wasn't my fault)."

That doesn't help with his concern that this will keep happening. So he yells, makes snarky comments about tipping, etc, to try to get the message across - this was a big deal, and it had better not happen again.

I might be wrong. I don't know the guy; maybe he's just an angry person. But I'm guessing that if you give him some sign of appreciation (not necessarily $100, but something) and a sincere apology that includes an acceptance of responsibility - "I'm so sorry for doing that to you. You're right, it was totally unacceptable. Thank you so much for bringing little Yankie by home on your way back. I'm rearranging my schedule so that this won't happen again" - AND you never do it again, things with the driver will get better.
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ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:26 am
BTW, all this stuff about how you didn't expect repairs to take so long, you didn't know your babysitter had a doctor's appointment for her son, etc - it doesn't affect what you owe the driver.

How good your excuse is for making him go way, way out of his way for you should have something to do with how you feel about yourself. But it has nothing to do with what he deserves. Whether someone didn't show up at the bus stop because they just didn't feel like it or because, I don't know, they got sucked into a random pile of quicksand out of nowhere - the driver went through the same hassle either way, and deserves the same thanks, recognition, and possible generous tip either way.
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amother
Plum


 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:26 am
amother wrote:
Was it bad judgement on my babysitter's part to go chance it with the doctor knowing that she had to pick up my son? Probably, but I understand her perspective that it was likely--and was the flu--so she wanted to get him medicine so she wouldn't have a sick kid and have to cancel on her parents any longer than necessary. She had never done something like that. I initially told her that I'd be early, so she made an appointment. Ok, so he should be irked with her, not us. As the first time something like this happening, he couldn't have been more understanding that we "goofed"? So now every little thing becomes a headache for us. Believe me I was MORTIFIED realizing that I was late yesterday, I really felt bad and I offered to meet him to save him the trouble--and he led me on a wild goose chase.

I'm having trouble getting past the part where you put any blame at all on the babysitter. Did you contact her at all before telling the driver to take your child there? You then say that you told her you'd be early so she had NOTHING to worry about and no poor judgement at all in making the doctors appointment. But going one step further--even if she WAS at fault he should still be mad at you. As far as he is concerned YOU and only YOU are responsible for your child. If you cant be there you sure as heck make sure someone else is and if that someone else isn't that is on YOU and YOU only. The babysitter, if she was irresponsible, that is between you and her. But as far as the driver is concerned SOMEONE has to be there and if no one is there there is only one person to be mad at--YOU.

I think you are suffering a bit from "bshvili nivra ha'olam"itis. The world does not, in fact, revolve around just you and your children and your car. Other people have lives to. And it's important to be grateful for services that are provided for us and not give him attitude when you are clearly in the wrong. How many pages of women telling you that will finally sink in?
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amother
Mistyrose


 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:29 am
This school doesn't have that b/c practically everyone gets bussed to school b/c of the lack of places to park--it says it outright in the handbook. They only have that system on days when there is no bus service.

Ok so fine, I've thought about it, perhaps I do "owe him one" for all the "favors" I've made him do. What's an appropriate amount? He's expecting "Something big"--honestly we're not in a position to do that right now. I mean for my son's morahs I didn't get them "big gifts" b/c we can't afford it right now. I'm afraid that if I give him something "within our means" he's going to take it as an insult. I don't think we can do more than $20-25--and I gave less to the morahs who are actually nice to us and are with my kids all day, normally for a bus driver I would do less--just don't have a lot of money right now. If I would've had more money maybe I could've actually taken that car service on that day and saved us all this trouble.
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amother
Puce


 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:32 am
Do you realize changing route causes his schedule to be all off. Meaning he's going to show up different times by other parents and they will then have to wait outside 20 - 30 minutes extra.
My kids take the bus every day:
1. Their bus driver would NEVER drop them off at someone else's home, even with a note, for safety concerns. If I'm not there they are always brought back to school.
2. One drop off location is allowed. The bus always keeps to the same route. I can't imagine how confusing it would be to a driver to have to change the route.
3. I have to be outside for my daughter's bus every day. If I'm not they take her back to school. I can have a neighbor wait outside for her or pay someone to wait if I can't be there, or arrange for someone to pic her up from school. There is no other option. Its nice he'll even wait for you to look out the window and run out, most will just drive off if you aren't outside.
4. There is always a -10\+20 minute variance in the drop off and pick-up times. Because cars drive in traffic and the drivers are humans there will never be an exact time. Its expected with busing. if the route is changed occasionally I would think it would mess it up much more.
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SixOfWands




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:38 am
amother wrote:
I'm not sure this came across in the right way. We had a significant schedule change in our life this year--that happened after school was already underway (anticipated, but specifics were unknown up until the last minute). I purposefully arranged to pick up my kids daily to AVOID having to change the schedule everyday due to uncertainty of who'd be available to pick up my kids. The one "emergency" I had, meant dropping him off at his "Regular" friday stop--no change in route, how was I supposed to know in that instant that she was dealing with her own sick child? After the incident, he threatened to quit driving for the school rather than take my child to the babysitter.
Ok, today was mostly my bad, I know I should've left earlier, I really tried, but he doesn't really make our lives any easier by not giving us any clue as to when he'll come by. I was on time, he came early.
That first day I waited outside for him for 45 mins b/c I had NO IDEA when he'd drive by. I live in an apartment and he drops him off where I can't see from my building. My husband gets annoyed with him as he always comes at a different time in the mornings and we have to juggle 2 kids at 2 different stops.

Meanwhile I know why the school uses him, but on a side note, I've heard my 4-year-old say things like "stupid driver" and has told me how the driver goes "too fast" and "was in an accident." I know he can make up stories sometimes, but I've see this driver, I'm just not impressed with him and his notorious "hot temper."


His "regular" Friday spot is not on the usual route. That means that he has to re-route the bus, possibly to the inconvenience of other children but definitely to the inconvenience of himself, once a week. That's already huge, and merits a substantial tip. [At my kids's schools, kids could get off only at their established bus stop unless there was a note from the parent to the school asking that s/he get off at another established stop. If it wasn't an established stop, it didn't happen.]

I'm floored that you were sending your child to a sitter without first checking to ensure that she was home and available to take your child. What is she were out all afternoon? But the fact is that this driver not only went out of his way to take your child to a different location, he extended his working hours in order to watch your child because there was no one there to pick him up. Maybe he had something to do after work. Maybe he has another job. Maybe he had to pick his own kids up. Or maybe he was looking forward to a relaxing afternoon at home. What he wasn't looking forward to was an unpaid babysitting gig, for an unknown period of time.

And then, on a week when a lot of people are on vacation, you again were late in picking him up, forcing him to again extend his hours (unpaid) and alter his route.

You know what time school gets out. You know how far the school is from your home. And you know that there were fewer kids this week than usual, so the route is likely to take less time. It doesn't take a rocket scientist. And it seems like you're the only one who had this issue.

Look, I'm not saying you're a bad mother. I'm saying that you do make the driver's life more difficult, and he does put himself out a lot for you. If I were you, I'd give him a great tip, so he continues to do that.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 11:39 am
amother wrote:
This school doesn't have that b/c practically everyone gets bussed to school b/c of the lack of places to park--it says it outright in the handbook. They only have that system on days when there is no bus service.

Ok so fine, I've thought about it, perhaps I do "owe him one" for all the "favors" I've made him do. What's an appropriate amount? He's expecting "Something big"--honestly we're not in a position to do that right now. I mean for my son's morahs I didn't get them "big gifts" b/c we can't afford it right now. I'm afraid that if I give him something "within our means" he's going to take it as an insult. I don't think we can do more than $20-25--and I gave less to the morahs who are actually nice to us and are with my kids all day, normally for a bus driver I would do less--just don't have a lot of money right now. If I would've had more money maybe I could've actually taken that car service on that day and saved us all this trouble.


no, you owe him a lot for all the extras he did for you. these were not favors. nor were they "favors." this was you driving him nuts. as for the car service expense, emergency expenses come up. as the parent, you're responsible for that. the bus driver should not be driven crazy to save you money. you're still not taking responsibility. frankly, I think the suggested $100 is reasonable. giving him $25 after he named his price will certainly seem full of attitude. it won't do anyone good.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 12:14 pm
Do you owe him a tip? No. Would it be wise to tip him? Yes. I'd tip him a bit over the 100.00 he asked for, in a pretty tin with some chocolates. Let's face it - you need this guy, and you did ask him to go out of his way for you. For all you know, he missed an important appointment on that day. Unpleasant people have lives too!
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amother
Purple


 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 12:53 pm
OP:

YOU are responsible for picking up your son from his bus stop.

The bus driver is just that. A bus driver. He drives a pre-established route every single day and drops of the kids at the same, predetermined stops every single day.

He is NOT a personal car service. He CAN NOT make ad hoc changes to his route at random for any kid. Period.

If you're in the shop, it's YOUR responsibility to go to the bus stop and pick up your son and take him wherever. Not the bus drivers. Take an uber and take him back to the shop with you or take him to a baby sitter.
It's NOT the drivers job to do that.

Your behavior and attitude towards him has been very unreasonable. You DO owe him a sincere apology and you can not do anything like that anymore. Period. It would be wise to tip him and tip him well. $25 may be seen as an insult if he suggested $100.

Take responsibility, make amends and move on.
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Wed, Dec 28 2016, 1:27 pm
mummiedearest wrote:
frankly, I think the suggested $100 is reasonable.


OP.Said.She.Does.Not.Have.$100.To.Give.
Some people literally do not have.
Are you suggesting she should take tzedaka for it?
Just imagine the threads going on here about that.
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