Where is the bar for allowing in immigrants?

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Post  Mon, Jan 30 2017, 3:21 pm
I see alot of debate here regarding how many actual terrorists murders would result from allowing in tens of thousands from various Muslim countries. One argument seems to be that since the likelihood of someone actually blowing up a shopping mall is very small, it's ok to allow them in. Am I the only who thinks that the bar needs to be a little higher than that? I see on youtube a video of what looks like gigantic crowd of Iranians chanting in the streets "death to America". In all likelihood very few of those people will actually behead a woman in the street for not being covered up. Does that mean we should have a big welcome sign for them? What about the fact that tens of millions of Muslims from Muslim countries believe in honor killings, justify extreme violence for the sake of Islam, believe apostates who leave Islam should be stoned to death, should they be allowed in? Again, they probably don't actually participate in honor killings, they only support it. So my question is: Should Muslims who support dangerous anti American, anti life, anti woman, anti freedom ideologies (but don't actually participate in the violence) be allowed in?
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Post  Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:17 pm
Your post strikes me as being about two things:

1. What is our general bar for accepting refugees?
2. What are the general values of the US, and how much deviation in those values is acceptable when admitting refugees?

The first question is easily researched. The vetting process is more thorough and takes longer than most people think it does.

This is the State Department's description of the process: https://www.state.gov/j/prm/ra/admissions/

And this is the description from the Department of Homeland Security: https://www.uscis.gov/humanita.....ugees
Here's some information from sources that are centrist or lean right:


The second question is up for debate.
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Post  Mon, Jan 30 2017, 6:51 pm
Here's some insight into the bar from a refugee officer who works for the Department of Homeland Security.
His name is Andrew Dickgiesser and he posted the following publicly on Facebook:

This is a follow-up to my previous post. I have seen a great deal of wonderful support for the refugees and others who will be affected by Trump's monstrous executive order (the unconstitutionality and monstrousness of detaining green card holders or dual citizens is obvious and I won't address it here). I have also seen a great deal of assumptions and misinformation by people who appear to favor Trump's executive order. This might be a long shot, but as a federal officer who does this for a living, I'm going to provide some facts just in case people are interested in possibly having a new perspective or at the very least learning about this process so that they can comment from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance.

I am a Refugee Officer that works for DHS. It is my job to interview refugees overseas, vetting their backgrounds and determining whether or not they can come to the United States. So believe me when I speak from actual on the ground experience and not second hand knowledge.

1. People who are refugees flee their home country and reside in a neighboring country (known as the country of first asylum). These countries often have temporary support such as refugee camps but do not allow these people to live or work there permanently. Many refugees must live in these countries illegally because they have nowhere else to go. Speaking from experience, I can tell you that even if refugee camps exist, they are more or less hell on earth. Endemic crime, chronic hunger and draught, and desperation mark these camps. God forbid you are a single woman living in one of these camps, where you will face the omnipresent threat of being raped (many women I interviewed in Africa had been raped a dozen times or more between crimes perpetrated in the home country, the journey to flee, and their lives in the refugee camps). Many countries forbid these people from leaving these camps, or prevent them from working legally, forcing the inhabitants to rely on sparse UNHCR food shipments, or work in the grey market. Even if people managed to get registered officially as refugees by UNHCR at these camps, the vast majority will live and die in these camps. Entire generations have done so so far. If you are interested in more detail on what life is like in these camps, consult a very good book that I read recently "City of Thorns" by Ben Rawlence. It is about the largest refugee camp in the world, Dadaab in Kenya.

2. Under 1% of all those defined legally as refugees (those who have been interviewed by UNHCR as part of the first step on this long process) will ever be permanently resettled in another country. This is because even though many countries step up to the plate to assess refugee claims and resettle these people, the problem is greater in magnitude than anyone can manage. UNHCR and the partner resettlement countries (such as the U.S., Canada, and Australia, amongst others) all work to determine what the best "durable solution" is for each refugee and his/her family, whether that be permanent resettlement to one of our countries, or repatriation back to the home country once conditions have changed (for example, a persecutory regime has fallen and an effective and humane replacement government has taken its place), or another solution altogether. Many will never have a durable solution and simply live and die in the camp or illegally on the streets of whatever country they are in. Because there are so many people that require resettlement, and the annual ceiling limiting the number of refugees the U.S. can admit (this was 110,000 for this fiscal year, but Trump just made it 50,000) we have to engage in a certain amount of triage of who is put forward by UNHCR for resettlement. This is the part of the process of not only assessing the refugee claim but also of background and security vetting.

3. After exhaustive vetting and background checks and interviews by officers such as myself, as well as medical checks, those lucky few who pass our scrutiny are allowed to come to the United States, where they are supported largely by donations and assistance in job applications and getting their children registered for school by local and national NGOs. There is very little public assistance that goes to them.

Trump claimed on the campaign trail and in this first week that refugees are not screened and that he would implement 'extreme vetting.' This is nonsense. Every refugee is 'extremely vetted' to use his asinine terminology. Ask any professional at any stage of this process and they will cast doubt on our ability to make the vetting process more stringent. But Trump never inquired about that. He didn't consult with anyone in the government about our security measures and our vetting procedures. He never sent anyone with us on one of our trips to interview and vet applicants. Because he doesn't care. He wants to appear 'tough' to sell his snake oil to the people that voted for him. He wants to get credit for creating a solution that by and large didn't have a problem. He and his cronies are going to be surprised when they actually take a look at the refugee vetting process and see what it actually entails.

Anyone who knows me and how I approach my line of work will tell you that I take national security and fraud very seriously (shoutout to you crazy hippies in the Refugee Corps, I am honored to be counted among you and beyond honored to share this sacred work with you!). I have denied applicants both abroad and in the United States for lying about their claims or about their behavior in the past. I have no tolerance for such activity. So when I see people on facebook and in life say comments to the effect of, quite moderately, "I feel for them but how can we be sure they are safe?", believe me when I say we in this field work every day to make sure this is a careful vetting process, and so far it has worked extremely well. I personally believe we should always be on the lookout for more secure processes to make the process even better, but we sure as **** won't get it from a psychopathic sentient cheeto who is almost solely focused on his popularity and television ratings rather than on effectively governing the country. You get those processes from the hardworking and diligent men and women of various government agencies that is now being undermined at every turn.

And to those of you I see in facebook and in life say comments to the effect of "**** em, they aren't our problem, we have people suffering here" (you know who you are), you have absolutely zero conception of the inhumanity of what you are saying. Yes, people in the U.S. do go through some horrible things. Too many of our brothers and sisters are killed in this country, and many face poverty and drug addiction and domestic violence.

However, I have interviewed people who had guns held to their heads and were told that if they didn't rape their own daughters, their wives would have their limbs cut off and everyone in the family would die.

I have interviewed a woman who is LGBT, and was subject to 'corrective rape' and had glass shards dragged down her back while she was raped. She wore a sundress on the day of the interview so that she could prove to me it happened by showing me scars that were the size and shape and color of eels down her back

I have interviewed women who were held down by criminal forest gangs and had their clitorises sliced off with dirty machetes so that they wouldn't feel s-xual desire.

I have interviewed a man who was accused of speaking out against his government. He was held indefinitely in solitary confinement while regularly being with batons, with electrical cables, and with canes. He was sodomized with a glass bottle that was then intentionally broken inside of him.

I have interviewed men and women who were accused of speaking out against their governments and then put in hard labor work camps for 12 years or more at a time. They were tied in the 'helicopter position' (stomach down, legs and arms bent backwards and tied together above the spine) and left out in the elements for days at a time.

I once interviewed a child of seven years old who was abandoned by her father. She was enslaved by her extended family and forced to cook and clean for them, and starved. She had to eat raw crabs that she found on a riverbank. She was raped by every male in her extended family. When she told anyone, they didn't believe her. She couldn't escape to another neighborhood or area because she couldn't cross the territorial lines laid by the gangs there. She escaped by herself and traveled to the United States by herself, through territory controlled by drug cartels.

So I say to those of you who read this and cannot see the false equivalence of saying '**** 'em, we have our own problems', who cannot see your own monstrousness, who cannot see the blackness of your own souls, I say to you, that you are the enemy, not the refugees
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Post  Mon, Jan 30 2017, 8:07 pm
I knew something to show how ignorant trump is would come up. Just wait. More is coming. I just hope and pray that Jews are not next on his list. And that he can't do too much damage. I didn't like Hillary either. None of them should have won.

It's sad how America looks. I'm ashamed to be called American today.
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