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Question for mothers of Lakewood high school girls
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amother




Magenta


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 7:05 pm
Yes, I would describe Bais Kaila as yeshivish, but with a warm, accepting, less competitive atmosphere. A little more of an "out of town" feel. But definitely very frum, and they have been picky in the last few years, getting stable, solid frum girls.
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 7:13 pm
amother wrote:
Yes, I would describe Bais Kaila as yeshivish, but with a warm, accepting, less competitive atmosphere. A little more of an "out of town" feel. But definitely very frum, and they have been picky in the last few years, getting stable, solid frum girls.


So here's the thing: id say we're pretty frum and absolutely not yeshivish. My understanding was that Bais Kaila was specifically not "not frum" but def "not* yeshivish". Is that not so any longer?

Basically, we don't belong not only in Bais Shaindl and the high school of bnos melech (forgot the name), but not at all even in Bais Yaakov. Is Bais Kaila heading that way now?
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amother




Purple


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 7:42 pm
Bais Kaila is a frum school with girls from frum, good families. Out-of-town feel is correct. At the interview, we told the hanhala that we trust our daughter at the public library, and that I have internet on my phone which my children may use with my supervision. They accepted my daughter on the first round and BH she is very happy there. She is a girl with no frumkeit issues at all BH.
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 8:54 pm
How does it work, by the way, with test and application and interviews? You fill out application during the test, putting four schools on it, and what happens then?

All the schools call you for an interview, or you call them separately to schedule one?
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Thu, Jun 14 2018, 9:34 pm
I also wondering, when I applied to elementary schools and went for interviews there was a lot I could tell from interacting with administration and principal during the process. A few times I liked the school judging by information from research, and got to see some ugliness during admission process. With elementary schools, there is no commitment until they accept you and offer you a spot.

Is hs process reversed, in a sense that you are committing when you indicate your 4 choices on the application, site unseen? I really don't like this idea. Research is great but it's not enough without seeing the school for yourself, at least a bit, which you don't get to do until after applying...
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Chayalle









  


Post  Fri, Jun 15 2018, 1:26 pm
amother wrote:
So here's the thing: id say we're pretty frum and absolutely not yeshivish. My understanding was that Bais Kaila was specifically not "not frum" but def "not* yeshivish". Is that not so any longer?

Basically, we don't belong not only in Bais Shaindl and the high school of bnos melech (forgot the name), but not at all even in Bais Yaakov. Is Bais Kaila heading that way now?


Bais Kaila is not at all like Meon (Bnos Melech's school).

There is an aspect of Bais Shaindel that is similar to some girls in Bais Kaila. Bais Shaindel is a very big school, with a very big mix. My girls say they could've gone to Bais Shaindel and found their place, because of the mix there.

But I would still say that overall, it's not as RW yeshivish as Bais Shaindel. Or maybe, that there's more of a concentration of strictly yeshivish, very RW parents/students in Bais Shaindel than there is in BK.

Hope that's somewhat coherent!
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Chayalle









  


Post  Fri, Jun 15 2018, 1:30 pm
amother wrote:
I also wondering, when I applied to elementary schools and went for interviews there was a lot I could tell from interacting with administration and principal during the process. A few times I liked the school judging by information from research, and got to see some ugliness during admission process. With elementary schools, there is no commitment until they accept you and offer you a spot.

Is hs process reversed, in a sense that you are committing when you indicate your 4 choices on the application, site unseen? I really don't like this idea. Research is great but it's not enough without seeing the school for yourself, at least a bit, which you don't get to do until after applying...


When your child goes to school, they will have much more to do with their peers and teachers than with the Hanhalah.

Look, the admission process is a tough one, because there are more people competing for spots than there are available....I've seen ugliness on both sides (parents bad-mouthing others in order to push themselves or their agendas.....schools getting paranoid about the name they will have if they aren't more selective....). I've learned to take the pros with the cons, until Moshiach comes.

And in terms of committing site unseen - don't do that. Go down to the schools to take a look...call everyone you know who has kids in high school, or anyone in chinuch you trust, do your research before you choose on of those schools, because you may end up there.

After that, daven and accept that all is from Hashem, and He has reasons unknown to us that may land our child in a particular school.
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 1:30 am
Chayalle, you mentioned going down to school.
That's exactly what I was thinking of doing.

Is there a way to check it out personally before applying without coming across like a nutcase mom? Like if It is generally not done, asking to come in ahead of the admission process would be like shooting oneself in the foot and making a weird impression.

How would that be done?
From my experience with elementary schools, you get to talk to the principal, and maybe an administrator at the interview, after having applied first.

I did and am still doing my research. Again, after my experience with elementary schools research was a small part of the process. Even ppl I knew personally, whose opinion I was seeking out, otirned out to have quite a skewed perspective. While I thought I was collecting valuable information, significant things became obvious only at the point of contacting the school (requesting the application) and during interviews.
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 1:33 am
To echo what Chayalle said, I agree that children would be influenced by their peers- that's why I'm trying to figure out what crowd sends where.

At the same time, students get inculcated/indoctrinated with attitudes, hashkofos, life views of the hanhalah, their ideology so to speak. That's why I'm trying to avoid places that preach things that don't go along with our values.
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debsey









  


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 9:58 am
amother wrote:
Chayalle, you mentioned going down to school.
That's exactly what I was thinking of doing.

Is there a way to check it out personally before applying without coming across like a nutcase mom? Like if It is generally not done, asking to come in ahead of the admission process would be like shooting oneself in the foot and making a weird impression.

How would that be done?
From my experience with elementary schools, you get to talk to the principal, and maybe an administrator at the interview, after having applied first.

I did and am still doing my research. Again, after my experience with elementary schools research was a small part of the process. Even ppl I knew personally, whose opinion I was seeking out, otirned out to have quite a skewed perspective. While I thought I was collecting valuable information, significant things became obvious only at the point of contacting the school (requesting the application) and during interviews.


Actually, I think the best gauge of a school is to look at their students when they are not in school. You can tell a lot about the social pressures, the values, and for sure the peer group when you observe a whole bunch of girls during leisure time.

When I was checking out high schools, I did a lot of that - if I saw a group of girls acting in a way that I was impressed with, I'd ask (them or someone else) which high school they were from. When DD didn't get into her first choice school (BARUCH HASHEM, in hindsight) and her second choice school was interested in her, I was happy to send there, because of what I'd observed of their students when I was doing this.
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amother




Aqua


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 11:18 am
Chayalle wrote:
Bais Kaila is not at all like Meon (Bnos Melech's school).

There is an aspect of Bais Shaindel that is similar to some girls in Bais Kaila. Bais Shaindel is a very big school, with a very big mix. My girls say they could've gone to Bais Shaindel and found their place, because of the mix there.

But I would still say that overall, it's not as RW yeshivish as Bais Shaindel. Or maybe, that there's more of a concentration of strictly yeshivish, very RW parents/students in Bais Shaindel than there is in BK.

Hope that's somewhat coherent!


Chayalle, I'm surprised to hear you compare Bais Kaila and Bais Shaindel. My dds go to Bais Kaila, but they could never have gone to Bais Shaindel and I can't think of many of their classmates who could have. There are maybe a handful of girls in their classes who could have fit into Bais Shaindel. And most of the girls I know who go to Bais Shaindel would NEVER go Bais Kaila.

I see Bais Kaila as pretty frum, but not at all yeshivish. There are some yeshivish girls, and the past few years I see more and more yeshivish girls, but the overall crowd isn't yeshivish. Although if you took Bais Kaila and put it into many other frum cities, it would be the most yeshivish school there. It's not yeshivish for Lakewood standards.
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amother




Magenta


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 11:54 am
amother wrote:
Chayalle, I'm surprised to hear you compare Bais Kaila and Bais Shaindel. My dds go to Bais Kaila, but they could never have gone to Bais Shaindel and I can't think of many of their classmates who could have. There are maybe a handful of girls in their classes who could have fit into Bais Shaindel. And most of the girls I know who go to Bais Shaindel would NEVER go Bais Kaila.

I see Bais Kaila as pretty frum, but not at all yeshivish. There are some yeshivish girls, and the past few years I see more and more yeshivish girls, but the overall crowd isn't yeshivish. Although if you took Bais Kaila and put it into many other frum cities, it would be the most yeshivish school there. It's not yeshivish for Lakewood standards.


This is where I find this sort of conversation frustrating. "Yeshivish" needs a bit of a wider definition in Lakewood. My daughters go to Bais Kailah. My husband and I grew up out of town, he went to all the top yeshivish yeshivos of our day, learned long term, and is now in klei kodesh. I went to a typical BY highschool and seminary in Eretz Yisrael, one of the top four of our day, and then became a limudei kodesh teacher. But we are very out of town, let our kids read (screened) secular books, etc. So we're not yeshivish in Lakewood? Ridiculous.

In Bais Kailah you will find well rounded frum girls with an out of town mentality. They smile at new girls in the hallway, they don't compete all the time, they don't scrutinize each other to a very large extent. The teachers are yeshivish, but open minded. That's what you'll find if your daughter is lucky enough to be accepted.

There is "in town yeshivish" and "out of town yeshivish.". Both types live in Lakewood. Bais Kailah is a good fit for a nice, right wing, very frum, out of town type girl.
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amother




Magenta


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 11:54 am
Double post
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amother




Aqua


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 12:11 pm
amother wrote:
This is where I find this sort of conversation frustrating. "Yeshivish" needs a bit of a wider definition in Lakewood. My daughters go to Bais Kailah. My husband and I grew up out of town, he went to all the top yeshivish yeshivos of our day, learned long term, and is now in klei kodesh. I went to a typical BY highschool and seminary in Eretz Yisrael, one of the top four of our day, and then became a limudei kodesh teacher. But we are very out of town, let our kids read (screened) secular books, etc. So we're not yeshivish in Lakewood? Ridiculous.

In Bais Kailah you will find well rounded frum girls with an out of town mentality. They smile at new girls in the hallway, they don't compete all the time, they don't scrutinize each other to a very large extent. The teachers are yeshivish, but open minded. That's what you'll find if your daughter is lucky enough to be accepted.

There is "in town yeshivish" and "out of town yeshivish.". Both types live in Lakewood. Bais Kailah is a good fit for a nice, right wing, very frum, out of town type girl.


You're right. I think the biggest difference between Bais Kaila and Bais Shaindel is that most Bais Shaindel girls are extremely yeshivish even when compared to other Lakewood yeshivish. And most Bais Kaila girls aren't Lakewood yeshivish, but they are all quite frum. Put the average Bais Kaila girl in an out of town community and she would be considered yeshivish.
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amother




Aqua


Post  Sun, Jul 15 2018, 12:16 pm
debsey wrote:
Actually, I think the best gauge of a school is to look at their students when they are not in school. You can tell a lot about the social pressures, the values, and for sure the peer group when you observe a whole bunch of girls during leisure time.

When I was checking out high schools, I did a lot of that - if I saw a group of girls acting in a way that I was impressed with, I'd ask (them or someone else) which high school they were from. When DD didn't get into her first choice school (BARUCH HASHEM, in hindsight) and her second choice school was interested in her, I was happy to send there, because of what I'd observed of their students when I was doing this.



We also chose our high school mostly based on the girls. There was one school we wouldn't even apply to after observing two different groups of girls from that school on two different occasions. We were so appalled at their behavior that there was no way we were sending our dds to that school.
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Chayalle









  


Post  Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:41 am
debsey wrote:
Actually, I think the best gauge of a school is to look at their students when they are not in school. You can tell a lot about the social pressures, the values, and for sure the peer group when you observe a whole bunch of girls during leisure time.

When I was checking out high schools, I did a lot of that - if I saw a group of girls acting in a way that I was impressed with, I'd ask (them or someone else) which high school they were from. When DD didn't get into her first choice school (BARUCH HASHEM, in hindsight) and her second choice school was interested in her, I was happy to send there, because of what I'd observed of their students when I was doing this.


I definitely agree with this. Look around your neighborhood, stores you frequent, and people you know, and see where they send their daughters. Also, look at girls who come out of a high school. What do the young post-seminary girls of a particular school look like?

But be aware that there's something of a mix in our schools. If you meet a girl who does not look like someone you'd want as a role model for your daughter, just keep in mind that she could be one individual.

Without using actual school names - I once saw a group of girls behaving very loudly in a local store...and by their uniforms I could see the school they attended. Not what you would expect at all.....I'd just chalk it up to a bad moment, or that particular group of girls.
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Chayalle









  


Post  Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:47 am
amother wrote:
Chayalle, I'm surprised to hear you compare Bais Kaila and Bais Shaindel. My dds go to Bais Kaila, but they could never have gone to Bais Shaindel and I can't think of many of their classmates who could have. There are maybe a handful of girls in their classes who could have fit into Bais Shaindel. And most of the girls I know who go to Bais Shaindel would NEVER go Bais Kaila.

I see Bais Kaila as pretty frum, but not at all yeshivish. There are some yeshivish girls, and the past few years I see more and more yeshivish girls, but the overall crowd isn't yeshivish. Although if you took Bais Kaila and put it into many other frum cities, it would be the most yeshivish school there. It's not yeshivish for Lakewood standards.


Bais Shaindel has a very broad, warm acceptance policy (something I admire about them, BTW. It takes confidence! - with a dose of Ahavas Yisrael.) It's the biggest high school in Lakewood - and as a result, the biggest mix. My best friend's girls go to Bais Shaindel, and we've talked about this many times - yes, there's a big core of RW yeshivish girls in Bais Shaindel that you wouldn't see in Bais Kaila - but there are plenty of girls where the types overlap.

I have a close relative who wasn't accepted to high school right away (for no good reason) and Bais Shaindel offered her a spot. She didn't take it - she ended up getting into a high school that she felt was a better fit for her. But there are girls in Bais Shaindel like her. My daughter says she could've gone to Bais Shaindel, though in 8th grade she was adamantly against it, and we respected her feeling. When she got to seminary, she was friendly with Bais Shaindel girls who were very much her type. DD says looking back, she thinks BS is the only other school she might have wanted to go to, had she been more open-minded back then....

My niece just graduated Bais Faiga, and is going to BK. Her best friend is going to Bais Shaindel.

Also there's a core of what I'd call "old Lakewood" families in Bais Kaila, and their daughters could just as well have gone to Bais Shaindel.
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Chayalle









  


Post  Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:51 am
amother wrote:
You're right. I think the biggest difference between Bais Kaila and Bais Shaindel is that most Bais Shaindel girls are extremely yeshivish even when compared to other Lakewood yeshivish. And most Bais Kaila girls aren't Lakewood yeshivish, but they are all quite frum. Put the average Bais Kaila girl in an out of town community and she would be considered yeshivish.


I think there's a core of girls in Bais Shaindel that may be more sheltered, and also more conforming, in-the-box. There are girls like that in BK too, but not as many.
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debsey









  


Post  Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:59 am
Chayalle wrote:
I think there's a core of girls in Bais Shaindel that may be more sheltered, and also more conforming, in-the-box. There are girls like that in BK too, but not as many.


This is true. It's like a Venn Diagram. Most of the kids would overlap just fine, but there are some kids who just need that space to be a little creative and out of the box, which BK will give them, and there are some kids who need that very yeshivish outlook, which Bais Shaindel will give them.

Also, remember that most 14 year olds are not finished products. A girl could start out being comfortable in either environment and then change gradually
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amother




Lawngreen


Post  Thu, Oct 11 2018, 6:10 pm
Bumping this up for new info.

What is happening with bnos Bais yaakov? I've heard that some (many?) girls and families are more meikel in certain areas, and in an effort to counteract that, hanhala decided to become very strict and move to the right, become yeshivish.
Please clarify if you have a clue.

Current crowd in yesodos? Aderes?

Is it totally not ok to apply to only 2 schools?

I'm thinking about Bais Kaila and oros, and can't come up with more ideas because I keep hearing some stuff that concerns me abt other places.
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