How does Satmar feel about Frieda Vizel's tours?

chanchy123

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 4:21 pm

amother wrote:

The pharmacies. Don't forget the pharmacies.

Lol that she excerpted my posts on her site, twice. Without the context of zaq' s questions it's odd. And she edited a little bit, which I understand because I was laughing at tourists taking photos of random things like pharmacies.

I agree with you, though. We know very little about the architectural history. The best we can do is give a current lifestyle tour.

"This shop sells fish. During the holiday of Pesach/Passover, some families keep the tradition of buying live fish. And this is the bakery where modern influence on tradition can be seen in the spelt challah. And here is a wedding hall, one of 7 in the area, where a local teenage couple gets married every weeknight except during special days or religious days of mourning. Notice the separate entrances for men and women. Inside the hall the men and women also dance and celebrate seperately. And here is the grocery store l, where you can all go in and buy some kosher ersatz coke. Not all local stores sell coca-cola because of more stringent kosher standards than the national familiar OU."

Etcetera.

Heck, I could give that tour.

debsey

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 4:30 pm

chanchy123 wrote:

Heck, I could give that tour.

Knowlege that is commonplace to us would be pretty exotic to outsiders. Explain pesach cleaning, seperate dancing, kashrus, why Chassidim follow a rebbe....it's not rocket science, and packaged prettily, would be pretty interesting.

"This is a cow. Our local Amish farmers only milk their cows by hand....would you like to taste some hand-churned butter or try to churn yourself?" The Amish teenagers probably also think that these tours are saying things that are pretty obvious.

Hey, it could be like Tom Sawyer - the authentic cultural experience of "Cleaning For Pesach" (we supply toothbrushes, toothpicks, and St. Moritz spray. Try your hand at being a chassidishe ba'alabuste for a day)

I'll offer that tour in my house (in Lakewood, though) right now! For the low charge of only 25.00 you can come clean my house for Pesach.

Raisin

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 4:35 pm

amother wrote:

The fresh fish for pesach and the coke thing would be things that are new to even most frum people. My sister once went shopping in a chassidish area erev pesach and was fascinated when a truck pulled up full of live fish to a crowd of women waiting with plastic buckets. My family has almost every pesach chumrah in the book but not this one!

amother

Rose

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 4:41 pm

Raisin wrote:

I am familiar with this chumra but I've never heard of women with buckets. In my childhood neighborhood it was delivered alive to the fish store but gets killed, cleaned n cut in the shop.

amother

Slateblue

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 4:41 pm

chanchy123 wrote:

Heck, I could give that tour.

So what exactly interests you about Williamsburg? The buildings? Most of us residents would not know where exactly the Bais Yakov used to be, for example.

It would be a completely different tour for you than for secular group. The bikkur cholim kitchen is a sight worth seeing, they say. I've never been there myself. The Satmar girls school, which takes up a square block, is probably fascinating for people from small towns with tiny Jewish schools. I doubt these places are interested in hosting secular tour groups, obviously.

Fox

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 4:58 pm

Years ago, the Chicago Jewish Federation gave tours of West Rogers Park to their employees a couple of times a month. The goal was to make them more aware of the observant community. I encountered these groups a few times, and while it initially felt a bit uncomfortable, I saw the benefit.

The Federation tour went to the local bakeries and small grocery stores; visited the Chicago Chesed Fund warehouse; some social service agencies; and I think they wound up at Jewel -- the major grocery store that might as well be completely kosher (I once heard a surprised woman asking for a ham shortly before Easter. She was told they didn't stock many but it could be ordered).

The people on the tour were always amazed that a "Jewish neighborhood" still existed. Most of them lived in the outlying suburbs and some weren't Jewish. Just a woman wearing a tichel or a man in a black hat seemed exotic.

Of course, it can go the other way, too. When the Skvere Rebbe, sh"lita, brought his chassidim to Chicago a few years ago, I overheard one end of an animated cell phone conversation in a local independent grocery. The man was drifting back and forth between English and Yiddish, but it seemed there was some ingredient in varieties that weren't available in New Square and weren't easy to find in Brooklyn. His wife was urging him to stock up, and he was expressing amazement that he'd had to travel to Chicago to find the selection of kosher products his wife wanted.

I've always thought Brooklyn shopping tours for OOTers would be a great side business for someone. The stores and home-based merchants are constantly changing, and while you can order a lot of stuff online, it would be fun to go around with someone who is a real shopping maven and keeps up with all the latest developments.

chanchy123

Tue, Mar 21 2017, 5:10 pm

amother wrote:

I'm interested in the relationship between the chassidish community and the non-Jews living in Williamsburg, I know it has become a hip neighborhood I would really like to see how the groups coexist. I'd like to see things that are uniquely chassidish and can't be seen elsewhere. I would like to hear about the history of Jews in the neighborhood. I keep conjuring up images of The Chosen when thinking of Williamsburg. and honestly I've read so much about it here, I'd like to see things mentioned on this board. The fancy chassidish clothes shops etc.
I would like to compare Williamsburg to Mea Shaarim or BB. The whole experience of American chassidim is foreign to me.

amother

Orange

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 8:41 am

chanchy123 wrote:

I've never been to williamsburg, but I would love to take a tour of the neighborhood one day. I never gave it much thought until I started following this site. I have become so fascinated by it. I actually thought of joining that tour once (I didn't realize it was run by a former member of Satmar with an agenda). I didn't think it would be disrespectful. In Israel there are similar tours of mea sharim and Bnei Brak all the time.
I used to live in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, there were plenty of tourists taking pictures of us on shabbat. It was weird that they would come to the kotel Friday night to catch the tefila.

Anyway, long story short. I will be in Brooklyn in a couple of months and I would like to see Williamsburg, (on a weekday) any recommendations?

ETA I don't plan on doing much gawking, but would really like to see the sites behind all the posts here on Williamsburg it sounds like such an interesting place. I'd love to see it for myself to understand the people there better.

Yesterday my son had his mesibat siddur at the kotel. All the tourists came to see. They stood respectfully and clapped after the kids performance. They took tons of pictures. I kept thinking what a huge kiddush Hashem we were making--especially to the Chinese and African tour groups who saw little Jewish kids behaving like menches.
The one thing that bothered me was the chassidish woman who helped herself and her children to some food from the breakfast the mothers had set up for the participants.

pause

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 8:47 am

amother wrote:

Was that really necessary??? Twisted Evil

amother

Brunette

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 9:15 am

I lived in Williamsburg until 2 yrs ago. I used to chuckle when they'd look at me and probably think of me as a sheltered woman enjoying the role of a mother to probably 7 kids in my 20s.
Meanwhile I was chasing my dreams of establishing my business, my husband and I have a few patents pending, and I've been on bc in most of my married life (arranged marriage where we are bh in love a few years later)..... What you see is not always what you get lol.
BTW, I would've loved to stop and speak to them, see if they have any questions, but I wasn't sure if that would be welcomed. I love interacting with people of all backgrounds.

amother

Vermilion

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 10:05 am

It's interesting to visit these cities if you didn't grow up in a place like that. When I was in college in NY many years ago, some friends and I had nothing to do on Xmas day. We took the train to Boro Park and basically ate our way down 13th Avenue. We had a great time soaking up the atmosphere, eating, and people watching. It was like entering another world. I'd love to do that kind of thing again.

HonesttoGod

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 10:13 am

I didn't read all 4 pages of comments but I did google the tour website.
I actually find it interesting and very respectful. People are curious about other religions and sects. We do tours of the Amish, people go to China and Europe etc.

So they do a tour of the most chasidish place in NY - Williamsburg and they give you to taste their food and tell you in detail about their way of life.
Why is this disrespectful? Satmar may not like it because, well, why not, they dislike many things. But I find it very interesting.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 10:39 am

chanchy123 wrote:

hey ill give you such a tour. will go to taubers to get a $600 top. ill arrange a whole tour around town to see the shuls,resteraunts,shops,schools if you want, ill take you to the mikva if possible. not a bad money making business.

amother

Pearl

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 10:42 am

HonesttoGod wrote:

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

But you don't need a tour guide for that, do you? Just a little bit of information and transportation.

debsey

Wed, Mar 22 2017, 12:37 pm

debsey wrote:

I could also offer a sociocultural analysis of the mores of "cleaning for Pesach" over the years, the feminist underpinnings of the narrative "I already turned over, what are you up to?" and a phenominological interpretation of the metaphysical meaning of searching our homes for chometz.

It's all in the buzzwords......anyone in Willy could do what she's doing, and I think it's smarter to try, so that the authentic community can have a voice. Look at Mezamrim - they have a following in the wider world. It's a type of "hasbarah." I think someone on here should try her hand at it. I'll be glad to supply some buzzwords, if needed (my Ivy League education will finally be of some practical use)